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Message
re: FBI: Bundys Arrested, One Militant Dead
Posted on 1/27/16 at 11:11 am to GRTiger
Posted on 1/27/16 at 11:11 am to GRTiger
quote:Actually he admitted that he was trying to bait Muslims into attacking the protest, thus he made it as inflammatory as possible. He wanted to protest right outside a mosque during Friday prayers (the most important day of prayer in Islam), he wanted people to wear "frick Islam" shirts, hold a Draw Muhammad contest which he believed would attract a violent reaction, and he wanted the protesters to be armed. He essentially sought an armed confrontation with Muslims, but he didn't get it, so he slinked away and started being a weird sovereign citizen type of loon.
No, I see what you were trying to do, I just chose to ignore the intentionally obtuse way you portrayed it. But since you brought it up again, he was protesting Islam, not those specific Muslims in the mosque. Quit trying to be ridiculous.
Wasn't his deal a direct response to those guys who went to Texas? If anything, his protest was directed at specific Muslims, just not the ones you say it was.
He didn't do the Draw Muhammad contest as a demonstration of the First Amendment. It was solely to "expose Islam" as he put it. He wanted to be attacked.
This post was edited on 1/27/16 at 11:12 am
1
Posted on 1/27/16 at 11:27 am to Hog on the Hill
You're leaving out all context of the discussion. I'm sure this guy is a piece of shite who did not have noble motives. I'm not defending his actions. I'm just wondering why people feel he is more dangerous than the people who actually intend to murder people, including very specifically certain Muslims from Arizona that prompted his decision to hold the event.
It's sad that people like him are seen as the face of an issue that gives legitimacy to some of these ranchers' concerns with the federal government. Oh well, like when my wife wins an argument because of the tone of my voice when I am making the best point, fed gov will win this one because some morons in Oregon don't know how to properly voice their point.
It's sad that people like him are seen as the face of an issue that gives legitimacy to some of these ranchers' concerns with the federal government. Oh well, like when my wife wins an argument because of the tone of my voice when I am making the best point, fed gov will win this one because some morons in Oregon don't know how to properly voice their point.
Posted on 1/27/16 at 11:31 am to GRTiger
quote:
legitimacy to some of these ranchers' concerns with the federal government.
Im not familiar with what you mean. I was of the impression that the main disagreement was with the Bundy's ability to graze cattle on land they did not own. I own and rent out a home. I feel that it is appropriate for me to charge market rate for that property. What is wrong with that?
Posted on 1/27/16 at 11:32 am to GRTiger
quote:That's not actually the correct context. You misunderstood the guy you quoted. He was trying to say that the protester is scarier to him than the Muslims in the mosque where he was protesting.
You're leaving out all context of the discussion. I'm sure this guy is a piece of shite who did not have noble motives. I'm not defending his actions. I'm just wondering why people feel he is more dangerous than the people who actually intend to murder people, including very specifically certain Muslims from Arizona that prompted his decision to hold the event.
quote:The protesters may be justified in thinking the government is overreaching in some aspects of its governance, but they're wrong in the specific and limited context of the circumstances in Oregon.
It's sad that people like him are seen as the face of an issue that gives legitimacy to some of these ranchers' concerns with the federal government. Oh well, like when my wife wins an argument because of the tone of my voice when I am making the best point, fed gov will win this one because some morons in Oregon don't know how to properly voice their point.
This post was edited on 1/27/16 at 11:33 am
Posted on 1/27/16 at 11:34 am to Scoop
quote:
They have to have grazing rights on Federal land because the US government owns 84% of Nevada. There isn't enough private land for grazing in Nevada.
When I want to graze cattle, I have to:
1) own land
2) find someone willing to let me graze on their land for an agreed upon price.
3) buy feed
what am I missing here?
Posted on 1/27/16 at 11:39 am to Hog on the Hill
He said he was scarier than any Mulsim in Arizona that he was protesting. Since he was protesting Islam in general, including the men who tried to murder people in Texas, I wanted to inquire as to whether these guys were more scary to him than those guys. It was a fair questions and also served to remind him that this guy exists because those attempted murderers exist, not because of the peaceful Muslims going to Mosque.
They are not wrong. Those same aspects of government overreach are applicable to the Hammonds. They are the worse group to be the voice, because they have selfish motivations to get in another spat with BLM, but the Hammonds were certainly victim to government bullying and some shady judicial practices.
I came into this thinking all these guys were idiots, and I still do to some extent, but after learning more about their fight with BLM and FWS, I have a better understanding for why they are doing what they are doing. I'm certainly not weeping over one POS that brought a literal fight to armed agents, assuming nothing illegal was done on their part.
quote:
The protesters may be justified in thinking the government is overreaching in some aspects of its governance, but they're wrong in the specific and limited context of the circumstances in Oregon.
They are not wrong. Those same aspects of government overreach are applicable to the Hammonds. They are the worse group to be the voice, because they have selfish motivations to get in another spat with BLM, but the Hammonds were certainly victim to government bullying and some shady judicial practices.
I came into this thinking all these guys were idiots, and I still do to some extent, but after learning more about their fight with BLM and FWS, I have a better understanding for why they are doing what they are doing. I'm certainly not weeping over one POS that brought a literal fight to armed agents, assuming nothing illegal was done on their part.
Posted on 1/27/16 at 11:49 am to GRTiger
quote:You're being obtuse. The same poster came back and clarified what he meant, and what he meant is not what you're saying he meant. I'm going to go with the guy who actually said it and ignore your attempt to make it about something different.
He said he was scarier than any Mulsim in Arizona that he was protesting.
Posted on 1/27/16 at 12:03 pm to Hog on the Hill
He actually insulted my reading comprehension as a way to say, "yes, you're right. My statement was hyperbolic. I didn't remember those guys (or I intentionally ignored them for my point)." I asked a question, and in his own way, he answered it. I am not being obtuse. I reminded him of the motivation behind the guy's protest, and everything was settled. You're trying too hard to create an argument to tear down that nobody is really making.
The bottom line is this guy is "scarier" than the Mosque attending Muslims in Arizona and not nearly as "scary" or dangerous as the Muslims in Arizona that prompted his response protest. He really isn't scary in the dangerous way since he didn't attack anyone, but rather tried to provoke people to attack him. His stupidity, without a doubt, is scary. Mostly to him, since it got him killed.
The bottom line is this guy is "scarier" than the Mosque attending Muslims in Arizona and not nearly as "scary" or dangerous as the Muslims in Arizona that prompted his response protest. He really isn't scary in the dangerous way since he didn't attack anyone, but rather tried to provoke people to attack him. His stupidity, without a doubt, is scary. Mostly to him, since it got him killed.
Posted on 1/27/16 at 12:52 pm to GRTiger
Apparently the guy that was killed was the spokesman for the group, probably not an accident that they killed the "voice" of the group. He had 11 kids:
LINK
quote:
"He would never ever want to hurt somebody, but he does believe in defending freedom and he knew the risks involved," Finicum Brown said. Finicum’s family, who is calling his death a “murder,” released a statement today thanking supporters for their prayers.
LINK
This post was edited on 1/27/16 at 12:57 pm
Posted on 1/27/16 at 12:54 pm to Rhino5
Robert LaVoy Finnicum
Posted on 1/27/16 at 12:56 pm to Rhino5
quote:I wouldn't call him the "voice" of the group. Ammon Bundy was the one speaking with the sheriff department and the media for the most part. But hey, go with whatever floats your boat
Apparently the guy that was killed was the spokesman for the group, probably not an accident that they killed the "voice" of the group:
Saw this earlier today. This guy thought it would be a bright idea to openly tell Oregon State Troopers that he had no problem killing federal authorities. What could possibly go wrong?
This post was edited on 1/27/16 at 12:58 pm
Posted on 1/27/16 at 12:57 pm to JBeam
The article called him the voice and spokesman ... Click it.
Posted on 1/27/16 at 1:07 pm to Rhino5
The Feds are trying really hard to make these ranchers look like a threat to the locals but I just don't see it
Posted on 1/27/16 at 1:12 pm to FelicianaTigerfan
Neither do I. It's in the middle of nowhere. But when someone calls out the greed of the government they take them out.
Posted on 1/27/16 at 1:14 pm to Rhino5
Press confrence on Fox just now was very uncomfortable. Repeatedly saying they are giving the ranchers a chance to leave peacefully but, you have to pass out roadblock and be questioned first.
The local sheriff looked scared to death. How do you tell a group that they need to go through the proper channels in court to voice your grievances when your grievances are based on how the court has handled things.
The local sheriff looked scared to death. How do you tell a group that they need to go through the proper channels in court to voice your grievances when your grievances are based on how the court has handled things.
This post was edited on 1/27/16 at 1:17 pm
Posted on 1/27/16 at 1:16 pm to Rhino5
You're right. It wasn't an accident. They shot him on purpose when he disobeyed orders and charged at police.
Posted on 1/27/16 at 1:19 pm to Rhino5
When a person gets mad that someone squats on their property, they have that right and get support.
When the gov gets mad that a group squats, it's unAmerican?
Huh?
When the gov gets mad that a group squats, it's unAmerican?
Huh?
This post was edited on 1/27/16 at 1:20 pm
Posted on 1/27/16 at 1:24 pm to Rhino5
quote:
Apparently the guy that was killed was the spokesman for the group, probably not an accident that they killed the "voice" of the group. He had 11 kids:
He also got his foster care privileges revoked when it was discovered that he was using the foster kids as free labor on his ranch.
And his 11 kids? Not all of them described him as a "loving" father.
Posted on 1/27/16 at 1:29 pm to Rhino5
So basically he was militant white Michael Brown?
Posted on 1/27/16 at 1:43 pm to montanagator
quote:
So basically he was militant white Michael Brown?
Yep roughed up a gas station clerk and beat up a cop in bum frick Oregon. Death penalty.
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