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re: Favorite Founding Father?
Posted on 7/3/21 at 1:49 pm to sugar71
Posted on 7/3/21 at 1:49 pm to sugar71
quote:
How is Paine not a Founding Founder ?
He never served any official position within the govt. He was super influential to them all, esp Jefferson and Monroe, but he isn’t a “founding father”.
I’m not taking anything away from his contributions, as I have both Age of Reason and Common Sense, and they’re great reads. But, he should not be considered a founding father.
2
Posted on 7/3/21 at 2:26 pm to Zap Rowsdower
Agreed
Posted on 7/3/21 at 4:06 pm to LarryByrd
Sam Adams.
Posted on 7/3/21 at 4:09 pm to CoachChappy
Hamilton was a bad arse too! Who downvoted Jefferson, and why?
Posted on 7/3/21 at 4:10 pm to Dawgirl
quote:
Sam Adams
I consider him more of a shite stirrer than a founding father. He was very good at it, though.
Posted on 7/3/21 at 4:11 pm to fr33manator
Ben Franklin - agreed. Went to France and secured funding to defeat the Brits. Not positive, but I think the debt they incurred was a major reason for their own revolution.
Posted on 7/3/21 at 4:25 pm to RonLaFlamme
Identify yourself
Posted on 7/3/21 at 4:37 pm to LarryByrd
Jefferson was considered a physical coward by many of his contemporaries. He had a poetic way of describing the fight for freedom, and he was a good President with the foresight to purchase the Louisiana territories.
There was a lot wrong with Jefferson - notably his impracticable vision of an agrarian society - but there was a lot right, too.
I believe that the two most irreplaceable founders were Hamilton and Washington. Hamilton had a genius for building our government into a world power. And Washington was the leader who pulled together the disparate interests.
But there were so many - Adams, Franklin, Jay, etc. It was this team that won their way to exceptionalism.
There was a lot wrong with Jefferson - notably his impracticable vision of an agrarian society - but there was a lot right, too.
I believe that the two most irreplaceable founders were Hamilton and Washington. Hamilton had a genius for building our government into a world power. And Washington was the leader who pulled together the disparate interests.
But there were so many - Adams, Franklin, Jay, etc. It was this team that won their way to exceptionalism.
Posted on 7/3/21 at 4:48 pm to BamaCoaster
quote:The fact that he wasn't a politician/ official is the reason I'm most fond of him & I don't feel disqualifies him as a Founder. Ben Franklin's compliment to him was a bit exaggerated perhaps , but clearly shows how important Paine's pamphlets were to fomenting the Revolution.
He never served any official position within the govt. He was super influential to them all, esp Jefferson and Monroe, but he isn’t a “founding father”.
Paine was certainly the unofficial Chief Propagandist of the American Revolution.( "These are the times that try mens souls.. ").
Posted on 7/3/21 at 4:52 pm to sugar71
quote:
Paine was certainly the unofficial Chief Propagandist of the American Revolution.
You’ll get no argument from me there, but this was a pretty big piece of said propaganda:
Posted on 7/3/21 at 4:52 pm to LarryByrd
Jefferson.
Posted on 7/3/21 at 5:25 pm to LarryByrd
Thomas Jefferson. George Washington and James Madison are a tie for 2nd.
I’ve read the biographies of every founding father and have been to several of their homes. I wish we still had men like them who’d be ready to take our country back,
I’ve read the biographies of every founding father and have been to several of their homes. I wish we still had men like them who’d be ready to take our country back,
Posted on 7/3/21 at 5:28 pm to BamaCoaster
quote:
He never served any official position within the govt. He was super influential to them all, esp Jefferson and Monroe, but he isn’t a “founding father”. I’m not taking anything away from his contributions, as I have both Age of Reason and Common Sense, and they’re great reads. But, he should not be considered a founding father.
You didn’t have to hold an official position. Founding Fathers were those who all contributed to the founding of our country.
This post was edited on 7/3/21 at 5:40 pm
Posted on 7/3/21 at 5:32 pm to LarryByrd
Tough call.
No way we win the war if it wasn’t for France and no way France helps us if it wasn’t for Franklin.
No way the Army stays together if it wasn’t for Washington.
John Adams was a genius behind the scenes.
But Hamilton was a badass gangsta. Dude grew up with nothing in the Caribbean. No education. He was the logical thinker of the Continental Army but also got his hands dirty and fought like a banshee.
No way we win the war if it wasn’t for France and no way France helps us if it wasn’t for Franklin.
No way the Army stays together if it wasn’t for Washington.
John Adams was a genius behind the scenes.
But Hamilton was a badass gangsta. Dude grew up with nothing in the Caribbean. No education. He was the logical thinker of the Continental Army but also got his hands dirty and fought like a banshee.
Posted on 7/3/21 at 5:32 pm to LSUAngelHere1
quote:
I’ve read the biographies of every founding father and have been to several of their homes. I wish we still had men like them who’d be ready to take our country back,
They're all interesting people to read about. Even the "minor" ones.
Edward Rutledge was only 26 when he signed the Declaration. Could you imagine a 26 year old today doing something like that?
Posted on 7/3/21 at 5:33 pm to LarryByrd
Toss-up for me.
Madison - During the debate over the Bill of Rights, he proved to be the most prophetic. Supporters said it would protect rights. Opponents used the lame excuse that anything left out would be unprotected so we shouldn't enshrine any rights. Madison said we should adopt the Bill of Rights because it would become part of the political culture if we did. Worked for just over 200 years.
Other one is Adams. He's underrated - democracy was a novel concept in the modern era. Most of the world was hereditary monarchs or colonies. Adams voluntarily ceded power because of the election, and this helped consolidate the idea that the President works for the people. Also rightly predicted that a civil society cannot function without morality.
Madison - During the debate over the Bill of Rights, he proved to be the most prophetic. Supporters said it would protect rights. Opponents used the lame excuse that anything left out would be unprotected so we shouldn't enshrine any rights. Madison said we should adopt the Bill of Rights because it would become part of the political culture if we did. Worked for just over 200 years.
Other one is Adams. He's underrated - democracy was a novel concept in the modern era. Most of the world was hereditary monarchs or colonies. Adams voluntarily ceded power because of the election, and this helped consolidate the idea that the President works for the people. Also rightly predicted that a civil society cannot function without morality.
Posted on 7/3/21 at 5:34 pm to fr33manator
quote:
Ben Franklin. Inventor, Statesman, Straight up Pimp
He was quite the whore. Lol
He also chose to forgo formal education at 10 yrs old and instead apprenticed for a family member learning the printing trade. We have the Farmer’s Almanac because of him.
This post was edited on 7/3/21 at 5:37 pm
Posted on 7/3/21 at 5:35 pm to LarryByrd
You forgot the one where he ran away and gave up control of Virginia before Washington could save his arse.
Posted on 7/3/21 at 5:38 pm to whatshisface
Jefferson was at his home without an army when the British moved in unexpectedly. So he left. Not really giving up control of Virginia.
Posted on 7/3/21 at 5:38 pm to LSUAngelHere1
While we’re pouring the Franklin accolades, don’t forget the postal service.
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