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Message
re: EV owners are increasingly frustrated with home charging, and it should worry EV makers
Posted on 3/27/23 at 11:22 am to bbarras85
Posted on 3/27/23 at 11:22 am to bbarras85
quote:
The irony in this is the amount of coal fired power plants we will have to build to support everyone driving EV's. It's laughable.
Won't be coal...coal is too damned expensive to produce. Coal is deader than the beer at an all day singing and dinner on the ground. It'll be natural gas most likely and loads of solar and wind farms and, like it or not, nuclear. 2 units in Georgia going online sooner rather than later (The SoCo knows how to get that shite done, like it or not)....one unit reaction started 20 days ago today. TVA is doing a BUNCH of planning, the likes of which has not been seen in the industry since the 1970's....lots of RFPs going out to vendors for all manner of services associated with extending nuclear power in the US. If EVs drive that to successful fruition they may prove to be a net plus in the long run.
1
Posted on 3/27/23 at 11:27 am to AwgustaDawg
quote:
TVA is doing a BUNCH of planning, the likes of which has not been seen in the industry since the 1970's
I still can't figure out how we skipped right through hybrid vehicles, rather than trying to go full electric all at once.
I guess they're too complicated?
It just seems like it would make sense to have a dual-fuel stop gap, especially until all that infrastructure was in place.
Posted on 3/27/23 at 11:30 am to BluegrassBelle
quote:
I don't mind the general concept of EVs, but it makes absolutely no sense to push forward mandating them (like California is) when the infrastructure can't handle them.
...unless the real goal is to keep/limit people from having vehicles at all.
Posted on 3/27/23 at 11:33 am to madmaxvol
$4.99 in Arkansas for Model 3. I don't know any Tesla owners that are dissatisfied, but I don't know a ton of them.
It's idiotic to mandate them. Let companies do like Tesla and make a product people want. Don't try to force it on the public.
I want a Cybertruck, but I don't plan on getting rid of my F250. Why not just have both?
It's idiotic to mandate them. Let companies do like Tesla and make a product people want. Don't try to force it on the public.
I want a Cybertruck, but I don't plan on getting rid of my F250. Why not just have both?
Posted on 3/27/23 at 11:38 am to paperwasp
quote:
I think you have to consider that a Level 2 charger at home on a dedicated 40-amp circuit at 240V will charge an EV faster than a commercial 208V 3-phase.
Significantly faster? Mathematically there isn't a lot of difference at 240 single phase and 208 3 phase. just a quick calculation says the current is about the same. It'd be about 10% higher on a 208V single phase circuit but slightly less on a 208 volt 3 phase circuit. Any way the circuit is configured you still have 7700 watts, resistance in the circuit would be the same and there are only a finite ways to deliver commercial power at constant and typical voltages. If the circuits efficiencies are similar and the load is the same the input voltage and current is going to be almost identical, the difference is only going to be in the cost and number of conductors needed to supply the pressure.
Posted on 3/27/23 at 11:38 am to ragincajun03
I'm beginning to see EVs the same way as my electric weedeater.
An EV would work fine as a daily commuter car. That is the most practical use for the vehicle. An EV does make a good travel car as noted in the article.
I would drive an EV to work everyday and run errands, drive to the golf course, etc. Under 200 miles any given day.
I can see also the radicalized push for EVs as well. People who push for EVs like a religion are wrong and weird.
I wouldn't want to weedeat a pasture with my electric weedeater either.
Any idea on maintenance on EVs?? Figured not having an engine/drivetrain would make EVs less expensive on maintenance/durability.
I understand about the battery life, but I know quite a few hybrid owners and have never in my life met anyone who had to have their batteries replaced.. but that is for hybrid vehicles. I've owned three hybrids, never had a battery issue.
I think I know the pros and cons of EVs pretty well. And if you take out the politics of EVs, there's some good and bad with them of course. The resources involved in creating the battery set is pretty crazy.. but you can't argue an EV could be the perfect, easy to use vehicle in many situations.
Another downside is they are expensive. Most people will end up buying luxury models. Nobody here is gonna go buy a Nissan Leaf. I wouldn't either.
Hard to believe people are bitching about the volatility of electricity prices when we deal with the volatility of gas prices..
Again, if you keep out the politics. There are some decent discussions and points to be made good and bad.
An EV would work fine as a daily commuter car. That is the most practical use for the vehicle. An EV does make a good travel car as noted in the article.
I would drive an EV to work everyday and run errands, drive to the golf course, etc. Under 200 miles any given day.
I can see also the radicalized push for EVs as well. People who push for EVs like a religion are wrong and weird.
I wouldn't want to weedeat a pasture with my electric weedeater either.
Any idea on maintenance on EVs?? Figured not having an engine/drivetrain would make EVs less expensive on maintenance/durability.
I understand about the battery life, but I know quite a few hybrid owners and have never in my life met anyone who had to have their batteries replaced.. but that is for hybrid vehicles. I've owned three hybrids, never had a battery issue.
I think I know the pros and cons of EVs pretty well. And if you take out the politics of EVs, there's some good and bad with them of course. The resources involved in creating the battery set is pretty crazy.. but you can't argue an EV could be the perfect, easy to use vehicle in many situations.
Another downside is they are expensive. Most people will end up buying luxury models. Nobody here is gonna go buy a Nissan Leaf. I wouldn't either.
Hard to believe people are bitching about the volatility of electricity prices when we deal with the volatility of gas prices..
Again, if you keep out the politics. There are some decent discussions and points to be made good and bad.
This post was edited on 3/27/23 at 11:48 am
Posted on 3/27/23 at 11:40 am to Geauxld Finger
quote:
But you’re saving the planet!
Does this apply to people who only have rechargeable lawn care equipment as well?
I'm guessing many people, including me, have all electric yard equipment.. I don't have an electric lawnmower though. Honda gas.
Posted on 3/27/23 at 11:40 am to wallowinit
quote:
And most people are idiots controlled by mass media.
And message boards.
Posted on 3/27/23 at 11:47 am to paperwasp
quote:
I still can't figure out how we skipped right through hybrid vehicles, rather than trying to go full electric all at once.
We didn’t, the demand isn’t there. Anyone who wanted a hybrid could get one.
The EV push is coming from government regulation/requirements.
It’s not coming from customer demand.
And the EV fanboys are not going to like it when everyone is jockeying for that coveted quick charger they can get right now without waiting. Sorry baw, get in line while I swing by the Cracker Barrel and shop Walmart as my EV charges.
Posted on 3/27/23 at 11:50 am to paperwasp
quote:
I just stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night.
Did the hotel have a car charger?
Posted on 3/27/23 at 11:50 am to paperwasp
quote:
Even a 20-amp circuit could give you 100 miles per day (assuming 3.8 kW in).
With an efficient load this would mean about 32 amps at full load at 120 volts or 16 amps at 240. That would akin to cooking a turkey in an electric oven daily. Not cheap.
This post was edited on 3/27/23 at 11:53 am
Posted on 3/27/23 at 11:53 am to paperwasp
quote:
I still can't figure out how we skipped right through hybrid vehicles, rather than trying to go full electric all at once.
This. It's like we're trying to skip an important step in the transition. There are a TON of hybrid vehicles on the road.
I've never sat down and tried to figure out if any of the hybrids I have owned has saved me money overall though. You spend an extra $3-4,000 on the hybrid, but takes a bunch of tanks of gas to make that up.
Hybrids also have the problem of having both ICE issues and battery issues (I've never had a battery issue as stated in my above post), but I've had two transmissions go out on me in my hybrids.
This post was edited on 3/27/23 at 11:57 am
Posted on 3/27/23 at 12:01 pm to AwgustaDawg
quote:
Significantly faster? Mathematically there isn't a lot of difference at 240 single phase and 208 3 phase.
You're correct, but don't confuse power with energy.
The capacity of an EV is in kWh, which is akin to how much gas it has in the tank, i.e. larger kWh packs have more range.
kWh divided by kW of power available gives you charging time (in hours).
A 40-amp circuit at 240V would be about 7.7 kW, versus 6.6 kW for 208V, theoretically.*
If your car had a 60 kWh battery, this would equate to about 1.3 hours less charging time.
*In the real world with circuit losses and partially-full batteries, it would probably mean about an hour saved overall.
Posted on 3/27/23 at 12:05 pm to i am dan
EVs currently are not practical for most car buyers. Most families have 2 cars. Both are daily commuters and used to run errands. A couple of times a year one is used for long distance travel. They cost what, $30K a piece for practical, fuel efficient models? If one of them is needed to do something like pull a mid-size boat or camper it ain't in no way, shape, form or fashion going to be fuel efficient. The full size electric pickups are ridiculously priced and won't pull a load far enough to get to a boat ramp. That dog ain't gonna hunt.
The problem is that EVs are fine for about 90% of driving done in the US. Its the other 10% that make it necessary to have a gas guzzler about the place. Given that EVs are significantly more expensive and maintenance costs are similar, according to most reports, what might be saved in fuel costs will be ate up by having to have another $30-$50K vehicle around the place to do the other 10% of driving. Now, if an EV could be bought for around $10K, could be plugged into a 15 amp 120 volt circuit, draw 4-5 amps and go 35 MPH for about 20 miles on a 3 hour charge it would make sense to have one or more around the place to run errands and maybe even commute for some folks. Only a fool would pay more for a less useful vehicle that doesn't save any money.
I want to buy into EVs. I like the idea and would buy one today if it were practical....I can afford to throw $50K down a hole and other than it hurting my feelings it would not be catastrophic to my long term financial health....but it would be an idiotic thing to do. EVs that were practical, could haul about 1000 pounds at 35 mph for 20-30 miles that could be charged for about what it costs to charge a weed eater battery is practical. It ain't available....they have all the bells and whistles folks expect from a car today at significantly more money up front, similar maintenance costs and little to no savings on fuel costs. I appreciate those taking the bullet and paying for their development....I probably aint going to be among them.
The problem is that EVs are fine for about 90% of driving done in the US. Its the other 10% that make it necessary to have a gas guzzler about the place. Given that EVs are significantly more expensive and maintenance costs are similar, according to most reports, what might be saved in fuel costs will be ate up by having to have another $30-$50K vehicle around the place to do the other 10% of driving. Now, if an EV could be bought for around $10K, could be plugged into a 15 amp 120 volt circuit, draw 4-5 amps and go 35 MPH for about 20 miles on a 3 hour charge it would make sense to have one or more around the place to run errands and maybe even commute for some folks. Only a fool would pay more for a less useful vehicle that doesn't save any money.
I want to buy into EVs. I like the idea and would buy one today if it were practical....I can afford to throw $50K down a hole and other than it hurting my feelings it would not be catastrophic to my long term financial health....but it would be an idiotic thing to do. EVs that were practical, could haul about 1000 pounds at 35 mph for 20-30 miles that could be charged for about what it costs to charge a weed eater battery is practical. It ain't available....they have all the bells and whistles folks expect from a car today at significantly more money up front, similar maintenance costs and little to no savings on fuel costs. I appreciate those taking the bullet and paying for their development....I probably aint going to be among them.
Posted on 3/27/23 at 12:10 pm to ragincajun03
What will apartment dwellers do if they all want one?
Posted on 3/27/23 at 12:10 pm to ragincajun03
quote:So, similar to when gas prices went through the roof and ICE vehicle drivers were not happy?
A major factor in this decline in satisfaction was the inflationary rise in electricity prices, the study found.
Posted on 3/27/23 at 12:11 pm to i am dan
quote:
I've never sat down and tried to figure out if any of the hybrids I have owned has saved me money overall though. You spend an extra $3-4,000 on the hybrid, but takes a bunch of tanks of gas to make that up.
I did the cost analysis based on all factors in buying a Crysler Pacifica Hyrbid. There was no cost savings and very little known about resell values and real maintenance costs. Even with the tax credit (the only reason I ever became interested in the first place) buying the thing and driving it 15000 miles a year would cost us about $1500 more per year through 5 years of ownership than the same vehicle in the gas model. Not a lot of money but based on a lot of unknowns....not practial in my opinion. The final straw was the dealers were marking them up $10-$30K above MSRP and were getting the tax credit themselves. No thank you...at that it would cost about $4000 K a year to buy the hybrid over the gas model.
Posted on 3/27/23 at 12:11 pm to paperwasp
quote:Hey, they provide charging stations.
I just stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night.
Posted on 3/27/23 at 12:12 pm to tadman
quote:Would be cool if you could start your day with a full tank every day, right?
Little awareness or little desire??? I don't want to wait to charge my car, I want to charge it now so I can drive it when I need it.
Posted on 3/27/23 at 12:13 pm to MyRockstarComplex
quote:In fairness, I'm not sure it's the right call to blame the EV for poor planning that made you have to go out of your way to charge at 4am.
I finally rented one of my last business trip and they just aren’t practical. They’re fun to drive, but charging stations aren’t that readily available, plus they charge so damn slow.
Also, I think the fees out there broke down to like 10 miles or less per $1 spent.
The hotel didn’t have charging stations and I ended up having to head to LAX at 4a with barely enough charge to get me there. Gas is far superior.
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