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re: Elon: “When the mass driver on the Moon gets going, I’m not sure money will be relevant”
Posted on 12/16/25 at 10:39 pm to hawgfaninc
Posted on 12/16/25 at 10:39 pm to hawgfaninc
I swear I keep trying to wrap my head around when people say money might not be relevant in the future.
Posted on 12/16/25 at 10:40 pm to hawgfaninc
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This is Elon telling you the future.
A mass driver is basically a giant electromagnetic catapult. You build a track on the Moon, run current through superconducting coils, and yeet payloads into space at 5,300 mph. No fuel. No rocket engines. Just electricity.
Gerard O'Neill built the first working prototype at MIT in 1976. The tech is 50 years old. The economics are what changed.
Here's the math:
Falcon 9 costs $2,720/kg to low Earth orbit. Starship targets $100/kg once fully reusable. A lunar mass driver, powered by solar and running continuously with zero propellant? The Space Studies Institute estimated $1 per pound back in 1979. Updated for modern superconductors and solar efficiency, we're talking single digits per kilogram.
The Moon has over 1 million metric tons of helium-3 (worth $2,000 to $20 million per kg on Earth). Titanium. Aluminum. Iron. Silicon. Rare earths. Water ice at the poles.
So what's the timeline?
Artemis III lands astronauts at the lunar south pole around 2027-2028. SpaceX wants a permanent base by early 2030s. NASA has plans for a 100-kilowatt nuclear reactor on the surface by 2030. China is racing to build their own lunar station by 2035.
Once you have power and people, a mass driver is just construction. O'Neill's original designs called for a track a few kilometers long. A 160-meter track can reach escape velocity at high g-forces. Modern estimates suggest 12 tons of equipment landed over 20 years could bootstrap a self-expanding lunar industry.
The realistic timeline? First operational mass driver by 2045-2050. Maybe faster if the space race with China heats up.
And here's the part nobody's pricing:
A functioning lunar mass driver can throw 600,000 tons of material per year into cislunar space at near-zero marginal cost. That's O'Neill's 1979 estimate with conservative tech.
At that point, the supply curve for critical resources inverts. You stop asking "how much does it cost to lift this from Earth?" You start asking "can we mine it on the Moon?"
Mining on the Moon, with 1/6th gravity and no atmosphere, gets cheaper every year as robotics and AI improve. Launching from the Moon gets cheaper as solar panels improve. The cost curves only go one direction.
Elon's "money becomes irrelevant" framing sounds crazy until you think about what happens when energy and raw materials both approach zero marginal cost. Every economic system ever built assumes scarcity of stuff. A mass driver breaks that assumption for anything you can make from lunar regolith.
This is why Starship matters as a bootstrap mechanism. You need cheap Earth-to-Moon transport to build the infrastructure that eventually makes rockets obsolete for bulk cargo.
Rockets get you to the Moon. The Moon gets you everywhere else.
And Elon just told you that's the plan.
Posted on 12/17/25 at 5:51 am to OceanMan
quote:
Money is simply a mechanism to store the value of time. Man’s greatest invention.
Then, philosophically, what is Bitcoin?
Posted on 12/17/25 at 5:57 am to OceanMan
quote:
Money is simply a mechanism to store the value of time. Man’s greatest invention.

Posted on 12/17/25 at 6:24 am to hawgfaninc
What would replace money for goods and services? Would we go to a barter system? I don't get it.
Posted on 12/17/25 at 6:32 am to el Gaucho
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The only way I’m moving to the moon is if they ban immigrants
Anyone want to tell him?
Posted on 12/17/25 at 6:49 am to EastWestConnection
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if they do that they can finally kill all of the poor people which means everyone on this board.
Maybe you jest, but this is inevitable.
We can conserve resources and ensure a safe, immortal existence when we get rid of all of the ugly, dumb, and needy non-elites. Robots will do the dirty work. Money won’t matter. Earth’s resources will flourish.
Posted on 12/17/25 at 7:01 am to 6R12
I juat hope they make gold irrelevant so college football players will stop wearing those trashy chains on the sidelines
Posted on 12/17/25 at 7:48 am to Robin Masters
quote:
if everyone drove a Ferrari
Ferrari would then be the new Accord
Posted on 12/17/25 at 7:52 am to Koach K
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Maybe everyone cranking it to this buck rogers crap needs to take a few minutes and study some physics and thermodynamics.
I’ve studied both. Biology is the limiting factor with this, not physics nor thermodynamics
Posted on 12/17/25 at 7:55 am to StringedInstruments
quote:
We can conserve resources and ensure a safe, immortal existence when we get rid of all of the ugly, dumb, and needy non-elites. Robots will do the dirty work. Money won’t matter. Earth’s resources will flourish.
Will there be lower class elites that have to go into work and service the robots?
Posted on 12/17/25 at 7:55 am to hawgfaninc
quote:
A lunar mass driver, powered by solar and running continuously with zero propellant? The Space Studies Institute estimated $1 per pound back in 1979. Updated for modern superconductors and solar efficiency, we're talking single digits per kilogram.
What % of the lit side of the moon would be required to power an electromagnetic rail gun powerful enough for interplanetary travel?
If you’re telling me fusion will power it due to He3, sure. But that’s a shite load of solar panels
Posted on 12/17/25 at 7:58 am to ATrillionaire
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Will there be lower class elites that have to go into work and service the robots?
No. Robots will service robots.
Posted on 12/17/25 at 8:03 am to StringedInstruments
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No. Robots will service robots.
Service robots will service the other robots. Who will service the service robots?
Posted on 12/17/25 at 8:03 am to ATrillionaire
A small amount of humans
Posted on 12/17/25 at 8:05 am to lynxcat
quote:
A small amount of humans
So we do have a caste system after all. And the robot owners? Are they super elites?
Pie in the sky utopias always end the same way. People lording over people.
Posted on 12/17/25 at 8:06 am to hawgfaninc
What's his timeline for this? If we go by his other predictions, this almost assuredly won't happen.
Posted on 12/17/25 at 8:08 am to crazy4lsu
quote:
What's his timeline for this? If we go by his other predictions, this almost assuredly won't happen
Slated to coincide with the Roadster release.
Posted on 12/17/25 at 8:12 am to nes2010
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I hope we will be keeping cows there too. I can't eat minerals.
It’s an otherwise mediocre novel, but Andy Weir did a significant amount of research in writing Artemis, and his world building on day to day life living in a moon city is likely spot on, in my opinion.
Spoiler alert: you’re not eating steak
Posted on 12/17/25 at 8:16 am to Joshjrn
I hear Beyond Steak is low in saturated fats.
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