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re: Drug raid in rural Georgia ends in a homeowner dead, no drugs found...
Posted on 12/11/14 at 1:53 pm to rb
Posted on 12/11/14 at 1:53 pm to rb
quote:
I've got a Remington 700 30-06 semi auto I paid $475 new for ,out of the box ,and I'll guarantee you I could kill just as many bad guys with it than all 8 of that Laurens Co swat team combined if needed. You don't have to drive a Cadillac if a Ford will get you to work.
Just like many good Southern men. And I keep a rifle in my patrol vehicle in case someone goes crazy with a rifle.
The Caddy was bought by me and I could afford it so why drive a Ford?
1
Posted on 12/11/14 at 1:55 pm to elprez00
quote:
That being said, the FBI HRT =/= the Laurens County SWAT Team. Just because you put on black nomex suits with body armor and tactical weapons and go to the shooting range once a month because your department got a grant to spend on gear does not make you a professional counterterror organization. Just because you go to a special class once a week and talk about SWAT does not make you a professional SWAT officer.
You are 100% correct.
Posted on 12/11/14 at 2:01 pm to Gulf Coast Tiger
quote:
Just like many good Southern men. And I keep a rifle in my patrol vehicle in case someone goes crazy with a rifle.
Unlike a lot of folks, I don't have that much of an issue with the equipment police are using. It's the manner they are being used I take some issue with. To me, the "militarization" of law enforcement is far more than the look, or the equipment. There are legit situations where body armor and high powered firearms are necessary.
Posted on 12/11/14 at 2:04 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Unlike a lot of folks, I don't have that much of an issue with the equipment police are using. It's the manner they are being used I take some issue with. To me, the "militarization" of law enforcement is far more than the look, or the equipment. There are legit situations where body armor and high powered firearms are necessary.
That is why you have to train correctly. Vehicles that can go into flooded areas like the military has in much needed on coastal ares like Southern La and save lives. I know we rescued a ton of people during and after Katrina using these vehicles.
Posted on 12/11/14 at 2:09 pm to NoSaint
"can we get some real national media attention on these no knock drug raids?"
Amen to that. I don't know anything about this particular case, but no-knock warrants are way overrused and are often executed at night which naturally causes the chance for something like this incident to go up. Why, why, why couldn't they have stationed an unmarked car outside the guy's house or work and arrest when he is standing outside?
Great piece today by George Will on a related issue, which is overcriminalization. We must have law enforcement but every encounter with law enforcement is also a chance for force to be misused by the governement.
Amen to that. I don't know anything about this particular case, but no-knock warrants are way overrused and are often executed at night which naturally causes the chance for something like this incident to go up. Why, why, why couldn't they have stationed an unmarked car outside the guy's house or work and arrest when he is standing outside?
Great piece today by George Will on a related issue, which is overcriminalization. We must have law enforcement but every encounter with law enforcement is also a chance for force to be misused by the governement.
Posted on 12/11/14 at 2:14 pm to N.O. via West-Cal
quote:
Great piece today by George Will on a related issue, which is overcriminalization. We must have law enforcement but every encounter with law enforcement is also a chance for force to be misused by the governement.
To be fair about that, the public calls us for everything is seems. We respond to a lot of non criminal calls because no one at the scene has any critical thinking skills or they don't have the ability to act like adults. For example, Sunday afternoon child swaps that are done in the presense of the police or at a police station.
This post was edited on 12/11/14 at 2:14 pm
Posted on 12/11/14 at 2:16 pm to Andre
So whens' the rioting and looting?
Posted on 12/11/14 at 2:17 pm to yankeeundercover
quote:You might be a tad racist if this is your first thought after reading that.
See if white people riot... just wait and see
Posted on 12/11/14 at 2:26 pm to Gulf Coast Tiger
quote:
To be fair about that, the public calls us for everything is seems. We respond to a lot of non criminal calls because no one at the scene has any critical thinking skills or they don't have the ability to act like adults. For example, Sunday afternoon child swaps that are done in the presense of the police or at a police station.
If that's the case (and I don't doubt you) then you would think the police would have learned to not "shoot first, ask questions later" by now, no?
This post was edited on 12/11/14 at 2:27 pm
Posted on 12/11/14 at 2:28 pm to efrad
quote:
shoot first, ask questions later"
If that was true, then the OT would be flooded with a lot more shootings than the ones we have on here. Police have over 1 million contacts with the public daily.
Posted on 12/11/14 at 2:29 pm to Gulf Coast Tiger
quote:Including the police. Bad things happen when stupid people get together.
no one at the scene has any critical thinking skills
Posted on 12/11/14 at 2:30 pm to Gulf Coast Tiger
quote:
If that was true, then the OT would be flooded with a lot more shootings than the ones we have on here. Police have over 1 million contacts with the public daily.
So you don't think no-knock raids have become a problem in this country?
Posted on 12/11/14 at 2:32 pm to efrad
quote:
So you don't think no-knock raids have become a problem in this country?
I stated earlier in this thread that no knock warrants should be limited to known violent offenders. Our department rarely uses them and we train very hard at our jobs. That maybe one of the reasons we are never in the news for DUMB stuff.
Posted on 12/11/14 at 2:36 pm to elprez00
quote:
There are many professional SWAT teams across the country that train and drill on tactics, response, counter-terror, etc. They are a necessary and critical part of law enforcement.
While I agree, they are horribly overused. I'd like to see the stats on the normal actions of a SWAT team. Anyone have anything on breakdown of SWAT usage. I'd be willing to bet the majority of there work stems from the War on Drugs.
Posted on 12/11/14 at 2:40 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Unlike a lot of folks, I don't have that much of an issue with the equipment police are using. It's the manner they are being used I take some issue with. To me, the "militarization" of law enforcement is far more than the look, or the equipment. There are legit situations where body armor and high powered firearms are necessary.
the problem is that when you give people the things, a lot of them feel the need to use them. its not fun collecting dust for 6 years between small town bank robberies
Posted on 12/11/14 at 2:40 pm to LSU0358
quote:
While I agree, they are horribly overused. I'd like to see the stats on the normal actions of a SWAT team. Anyone have anything on breakdown of SWAT usage. I'd be willing to bet the majority of there work stems from the War on Drugs.
LINK
62% of SWAT deployments are to search for drugs.
Posted on 12/11/14 at 2:44 pm to elprez00
quote:
I've said this before. There are many professional SWAT teams across the country that train and drill on tactics, response, counter-terror, etc. They are a necessary and critical part of law enforcement.
Of course they are a necessary part of law enforcement.
However,
quote:
There has been more than a 1,400% increase in the total num- ber of police paramilitary deployments, or callouts, between 1980 and 2000. Today, an estimated 45,000 SWAT-team deployments are conducted yearly among those depart- ments surveyed; in the early 1980s there was an average of about 3,000 (Kraska, 2001). The trend-line demonstrated that this growth began during the drug war of the late 1980s and early 1990s.
Source
1400% increase in SWAT deployments, meanwhile violent crime is at an all-time low....
Posted on 12/11/14 at 2:46 pm to NoSaint
quote:
the problem is that when you give people the things, a lot of them feel the need to use them. its not fun collecting dust for 6 years between small town bank robberies
Right. The use of this equipment in some situations certainly has led to the feeling that law enforcement is a domestic armed force in a war with it's citizens.
Posted on 12/11/14 at 2:57 pm to RogerTheShrubber
I have doubts as to the accuracy of it's data. It seems was too low, IMO, and is even missing data for 2012 and 2013.
But each data point has a general description of the event. And those are very interesting/disturbing.
Interactive Map of Botched Paramilitary Police Raids
But each data point has a general description of the event. And those are very interesting/disturbing.
Interactive Map of Botched Paramilitary Police Raids
This post was edited on 12/11/14 at 3:13 pm
Posted on 12/11/14 at 3:12 pm to MSMHater
quote:
was going to start a spinoff thread for this map, but I have doubts as to the accuracy of it's data. It seems was too low, IMO, and is even missing data for 2012 and 2013. But each data point has a general description of the event. And those are very interesting/disturbing.
That sight has some good info
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