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Started By
Message
re: Does Anyone Disagree With How The Federal Gov Handled The David Koresh Situation?
Posted on 12/20/17 at 9:39 pm to Bunk Moreland
Posted on 12/20/17 at 9:39 pm to Bunk Moreland
quote:
Since then, I have learned how evil .gov is, how they had a million chances to arrest Koresh off the compound, and that even the raid itself could have been done more delicately in a bunch of ways.
Government bungled it badly. Just got out of hand fricked up.
0
Posted on 12/20/17 at 9:39 pm to OweO
Back the blue!
Wait this was the FBI?
These deep state guys are terrible! What a disgrace!
Wait this was the FBI?
These deep state guys are terrible! What a disgrace!
Posted on 12/20/17 at 9:40 pm to IAmNERD
quote:Were these the ones that happened to have been Arkansas LEO’s and witnesses to the Clinton shenanigans in AR, that conveniently died during all this?
4 atf agents were killed.
It’s been a while since I was briefed on the Clinton coverup conspiracies that tended to end the life of +200 folks, like Vince Foster.
This post was edited on 12/20/17 at 9:41 pm
Posted on 12/20/17 at 9:40 pm to OweO
The government can't just go around murdering citizens who they think are bad. That's not how the justice system works.
Posted on 12/20/17 at 9:41 pm to OweO
It was the period of militirazion of law enforcement, when the government turned on the people. Much distrust in the government started then. Waco, Ruby Ridge and Elian Gonzales
Posted on 12/20/17 at 9:41 pm to Brosef Stalin
Apparently they can.
And do.
And do.
This post was edited on 12/20/17 at 9:42 pm
Posted on 12/20/17 at 9:44 pm to IAmNERD
quote:
They didnt. People from the cult set the fires.
This is where I am having trouble remembering. I know women and children were killed, but I thought DK used them to protect himself. The government had no intentions in doing what they did.
I don't remember the exact details which is why I don't know what to think. I just know that after reading about it later on.. I realized it was more to it than some crazy dude who thought he was jesus, running a cult and was holding women and children hostage (by brainwashing them), the government took action and people got killed.
But for some reason, it seems like there was also more to it than the government just going in which led to the death of women and children..
Posted on 12/20/17 at 9:47 pm to Brosef Stalin
quote:
The government can't just go around murdering citizens who they think are bad. That's not how the justice system works.
You and I know this, but like I said, there are people who doesn't see it that way. They think that "well since the government is doing it, they are just doing the right thing".
Posted on 12/20/17 at 9:48 pm to OweO
Janet Reno really screwed the pooch on that situation
Posted on 12/20/17 at 9:52 pm to OweO
Koresh was a total nutjob who believed the government was out to get him. The government ramped up his craziness by coming to get him.
There is no way you can look at everything that happened and think the government acted correctly. They screwed up big.
They didn't torch the folks but when you attack a fracking doomsday cult with tanks, then expect the damn doomsday cult to respond with ...doom.
Typically, I would lay the blame 100% on the crazy folk but in this case the government really fracked up. what do you think is going to happen when you come at nutjobs with...
This isn't some case where in hindsight things look worse than they were. These idiots could have picked up Koresh at any point.
This was a colossal frack up.
There is no way you can look at everything that happened and think the government acted correctly. They screwed up big.
They didn't torch the folks but when you attack a fracking doomsday cult with tanks, then expect the damn doomsday cult to respond with ...doom.
Typically, I would lay the blame 100% on the crazy folk but in this case the government really fracked up. what do you think is going to happen when you come at nutjobs with...
This isn't some case where in hindsight things look worse than they were. These idiots could have picked up Koresh at any point.
This was a colossal frack up.
Posted on 12/20/17 at 9:55 pm to OweO
Hubris.
Federal law enforcement in the early 90’s acted is if there mere presence would cause criminals to come quietly. But unlike Hollywood, worthy adversaries never give up easy.
I am not even gonna get started on the use of Federal Military equipment for a law enforcement operation.
They fricked the pooch good. But they have evolved from it.
Federal law enforcement in the early 90’s acted is if there mere presence would cause criminals to come quietly. But unlike Hollywood, worthy adversaries never give up easy.
I am not even gonna get started on the use of Federal Military equipment for a law enforcement operation.
They fricked the pooch good. But they have evolved from it.
Posted on 12/20/17 at 9:55 pm to OweO
Janet Reno was as confused by the Koresh situation as she was about her gender identity. Sure didn't hurt Clinton that LeBleu and the others were killed.
Posted on 12/20/17 at 9:58 pm to Bullfrog
quote:
Apparently they can.
And do.
This brings up something else. The second amendment says..
quote:
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed
But isn't the government itself the biggest threat to this? If anyone tries to take arms against the government, they will be arrested and likely convicted..
I know this isn't on topic, but I am just thinking about this. If a group of people try to take a stance against the government, the federal government pretty much prevents them from expressing the 2nd amendment right. Look at the situation that happened in.. I think Oregon a few years ago. When a group of people were fighting the federal government over some land (Lisa Ling did a documentary on this titled "Patriot Movement").
Anyway, this is a different topic for a different day i guess.
Posted on 12/20/17 at 10:01 pm to TigerMyth36
quote:
This isn't some case where in hindsight things look worse than they were.
I think its just the opposite.. Of course I was younger when it happened, but at the time it seemed more "black and white". DK bad guy, government good guys.. But when I learned more about it, it wasn't as black and white.
Posted on 12/20/17 at 10:04 pm to kingbob
quote:
ose children are in trouble, we have to save them from the crazy cult! What should we do!!!?
Federal government: burn them all alive.
This.
When did child welfare become a federal issue? The answer is: never. Allegations were made and were found to be false.
When that didn't work, they manufactured a story about illegal drugs being manufactured on the premises, so that they could get military hardware from the NG / Army.
It is one of the most sordid affairs in the history of law enforcement. Janet Reno and Eric Holder should have been run out of office and put in prison for their actions.
ETA: Another thing a lot of people don't seem to understand about all this. ATF started out as an agency to enforce the Federal Government's revenue laws, like the payment of the $200 tax to own a fully automatic weapon.
At some point, it morphed into an agency with its own automatic weapons (there are some 50-75 Federal agencies that are "authorized" to carry weapons) and a budget to justify.
Tell me, why couldn't ATF have simply walked up to Koresh and told him to pay the $200 tax they suspected him of not paying on his "illegally converted" weapons?
Do you know that, to this day, no one has seen these supposed illegally converted weapons they found in the ashes? NRA asked to have them examined by an non-destructive testing outfit. ATF/FBI refused. Why would they do that?
There are a lot of things about this case that stink to high heaven. To say that ATF and FBI screwed this up is a gross understatement.
This post was edited on 12/20/17 at 10:18 pm
Posted on 12/20/17 at 10:28 pm to OweO
Whatever version of the specifics you believe, when the result is 82 dead people including women and children, the authorities involved totally, completely, and undisputedly screwed up, beyond measure.
For example, it took 6 years for the government to admit that incendiary devices were used, after multiple testimonies under oath that they had not. Evidence that was always and only under government control mysteriously went missing, such as one of the two doors into the compound, which could only have provided evidence blowing up the government narrative. Pages of documents revealing the incendiary grenades used went missing.
The cherry on top is the absolute evidence that there were literally hundreds of opportunities to arrest Koresh without incident, which would have put almost nobody at risk.
Putting it on good guy/bad guy terms is a gross over-simplification, but it's almost indisputable that there are some government agents involved who should be in prison for the rest of their lives, and still others who should have done time, up to and including Janet Reno.
For example, it took 6 years for the government to admit that incendiary devices were used, after multiple testimonies under oath that they had not. Evidence that was always and only under government control mysteriously went missing, such as one of the two doors into the compound, which could only have provided evidence blowing up the government narrative. Pages of documents revealing the incendiary grenades used went missing.
The cherry on top is the absolute evidence that there were literally hundreds of opportunities to arrest Koresh without incident, which would have put almost nobody at risk.
Putting it on good guy/bad guy terms is a gross over-simplification, but it's almost indisputable that there are some government agents involved who should be in prison for the rest of their lives, and still others who should have done time, up to and including Janet Reno.
This post was edited on 12/20/17 at 10:30 pm
Posted on 12/20/17 at 10:32 pm to OweO
It lead to Ruby Ridge which was even more ducked up. At the time I was fine with it. Over time as more facts came out I had a problem with it
Posted on 12/20/17 at 10:34 pm to Bunk Moreland
quote:
and that even the raid itself could have been done more delicately in a bunch of ways.
. Werent they holed up for weeks? That is a shitload of money and resources going out.
Posted on 12/20/17 at 10:35 pm to TutHillTiger
Ruby Ridge was first. It was just a small enough murder to keep relatively quiet. It didn't really blow up until people realized that they just watched the government murder 80 something people on tv at Waco.
This post was edited on 12/20/17 at 10:36 pm
Posted on 12/20/17 at 10:38 pm to OweO
<<<<this guy
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