re: Do you think human giants ever roamed this earth?

Innocent children go to heaven…so why are they born to suffer? For us? For them? Makes no sense. If they were to go to heaven they’d just be stillborn. If that’s the case why do some suffer horrible deaths and some die in the blink of an eye? How do you interpret that? Seems you’re reaching

Miracles are completely associated with god. Fact is it’s simply probability in a statistical model. Your miracle only happens in a low number. Say 1 in 100 million times. So we might be dead before the next person encounters this type mentioned but it shall happen. Of course that’s only for some of it. I don’t believe divine intervention took place. Low probability doesn’t mean no probability. It just means we nah not see it again in our lifetime.

For instance: a 1 yr old baby waking up tomorrow. Probably a 99% chance any 1 yr old wakes up tomorrow. High probability.

A 1 yr old not strapped in a car seat gets into an accident, low probability of survival however one will survive over the number of times it has ever taken place…

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Yet none of you non believers can tell me where the complexity of the human body came from? Why didn’t the first species have serious deformities. Like 3 heads and a heart outside of its body or 5 feet coming out of their head? Surely science couldn’t have gotten it that perfect right. Why do species have the ability to reproduce? Why would science care if there were more of something? A man built the automobile right? Well if you think about it the body is much the same as a car the way it functions

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Because the very first organisms were single-celled. They didn't have heads and feet.

And we don't know how many other single-celled organisms may have come into being and never have evolved and died off due to environmental conditions not being right.

Or maybe they evolved for a period of time and then died off due to a variety of reasons.

Earth is what, 6 billion years old? There are lot of things that may have happened way back when that we will never know about because no historical record exists.

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Not solely, but a majority, like the stats suggest 80-95%. Their conversions don’t mean they are more likely true(veracity).

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Right. It also means that it is not an objective fact that cultural and familial relationships determine religious beliefs- which was my point. The fact that it’s not a guarantee, means that it is a subjective decision, rather than simply a consequence of being born into a particular culture or family. Though I don’t dispute that most people will go back to what they’re comfortable with.

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The lack of conversion to people who are exposed to Christianity seems like a testament against Christianity.

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Or a testament to it. The whole bible seems to convey this message of people choosing self over God.

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I don’t believe in free will, or if we do the little that we have is predetermined

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I think we have, essentially, limited free will. Meaning that we make our own decisions within a pre-ordained framework. For example, we often find ourselves in situations with limited options, yet we are fully responsible for the decisions we make.

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We are definitely dealt a certain hand, maybe how we play them is in the margins.

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I tend to think it’s rational that we can’t control our desires, but that we create them through patterns of decisions that are influenced by external factors beyond our control.

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I think god and determinism could co exist.

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Depends on how you define determinism, but I certainly think that if God is who He says He is, than determinism seems to be the best option.

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I can wave off the problem of suffering with god doing god things

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Then you’re well ahead of the game, friend. It’s probably the number one issue preventing people from accepting Christianity. I agree though. When you try to see it from the perspective of this life vs eternity, it seems plausible that all evil may indeed serve a greater good.

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But divine hiddenness is harder, only cause it’s at the cost of eternal damnation.

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For me, too. I can only speak for myself, but, having been a Christian, then walking away from the faith, and returning to it; that it was definitely me- not Him (when it comes to searching). I realize that means nothing to someone who has never known God. The problem with the excuse of hiddenness, first of all, is that it places blame on an omnipotent, omniscient and omnibenevolent God- instead of on a fallen creation that is in direct rebellion to that God. By invoking this claim, we are placing ourselves in the judgment seat- a seat which we are not qualified to occupy. We don’t know the beginning from the end, nor do we understand how our decisions affect all of creation- which is why the core tenets of Christianity are faith and humility.

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None of it is a problem if universalism is true

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I pray this without ceasing! At least in some form. I’m not Roman Catholic, but I hope they’re at least right about purgatory. I won’t pretend to make a case for it (universalism) being scripturally irrefutable, but I just really really deep down hope that winds up being the case. I’m totally fine with God forging Adolf Hitler post mordem.

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and Jesus‘s sacrifice was truly a non-transactional gift.

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This? No. Jesus is God in flesh. He paid our fine. It absolutely is transactional in that sense. I get what you’re saying though- that it shouldn’t be relegated to your own un-informed decision; a crapshoot of Pascal’s wager. I would contend that we are fully aware of what we’re doing; which is freely choosing to put ourselves on the throne and effectively choosing our own fate. My greatest hope is that there is some sort of afterlife offer; in which we are fully informed and then offered a decision. But, as I am convinced that it is at least plausible that the Bible is the inspired word of God, I can’t advocate for universalism. I just really really want it to be true.


When questioned, Jesus said that the greatest commandment is to love God with all you have- and the second is to live your neighbor as yourself. Faith and humility. Everything else derives from those two.

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OK,so "southern ape" it is. Humans evolved from southern apes (in theory - evolution is still a theory, not proven).

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Why don’t modern apes evolve?

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I believe the theory of evolution is directionally correct. Certainly more directionally corrent than any sky wizard creation theory.

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Except macro evolution doesn’t stop. It went on for millions of years and then stopped when we were able to observe it?

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amino acids came together and percolated in a stew of nutrients warmed by the sun.

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And yet in 3.5 billion years not one new life form has been created from a single cell. Not in a lab or in nature. I’m guessing you believe in the Fermi Paradox too right? You surely have to believe another advanced life form does exist?

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Have any of you considered how life would be if God hadn't given us free will?

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Never crossed my mind.

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What would that look like?

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no free will means you're a robot.

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Right. We have free will. But it’s limited. We have choices to make. The question is to what degree do we/can we affect which choices are available to be made.

Look I waited 20 pages to post in this thread so here goes.....,


what page the picture of the giant on? 20 pages shite got to be somewhere

Creationists expect a lot out of science and very little out of God.

Assume for a moment that Earth and all life upon it formed by natural means. I think we can agree that attempting to figure out all the details and dynamics of that is a massive undertaking and that our ability to seriously study the topic is very new. We have some answers now, but we will certainly have more in the future. Science is always progressing.

The creationist doesn’t have to be bothered with field work, research, developing new techniques and theories. He just says, “God did it… somehow.”

But I do have a few issues with “God did it” as it relates to Christianity.

1. The Bible speaks of Noah’s Ark and a global flood some 5,000 years ago. Now, conventional science could have difficulty explaining how Species A and Species B might have diverged 643.45 million years ago in what is now a desert in the midlatitudes but was a tropical rainforest near the equator eons ago. That is difficult.

But creationists propose an event that happened very recently and affected all life on Earth in impossible ways that are beyond ridiculous and have no support in contemporary science.

The notion that polar bears, kangaroos, anacondas, giraffes, tigers, and all other species (some would include even extinct species such as T-Rex) converged on a giant wooden boat in the Middle East that was built by a man centuries old and his family and that they survived a flood that covered Mt. Everest is perhaps the most absurd thing I have heard that otherwise normal people honestly believe.

2. The Bible speaks of Earth being a fallen world and that all death and suffering are to be blamed on man’s sin. This doesn’t really make sense, though, considering that species on this planet have lived, died, gone extinct for a much longer period of time than man has been around. Our ancestors also survived nightmarish conditions for hundreds of millennia before the Abrahamic religions were formed and anyone talked about Jesus and sin.

I don’t understand how Christians assert the need for Jesus and His sacrifice on the cross when the conditions that made it necessary did not happen as explained in the Bible.

People like to blame birth defects, cancer, predation, natural disasters, etc., on man and not God (definitely not God), but how can man be blamed if we were born into a world where these things already existed?

Why does Jesus deserve praise for supposedly saving believers from death if God placed us (through no fault of our own) in a frail, mortal state in a harsh and dangerous world?

It wasn’t every animal. It was 2 of every “kind or sort”.

We as Christians believe He had just created everything out of nothing. Why would it be hard to believe he was able to make 2 of every kind walk to the ark?

Creation museum does a great job laying this out plainly

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We as Christians believe He had just created everything out of nothing. Why would it be hard to believe he was able to make 2 of every kind walk to the ark?

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Lol, we already believe nonsense why not extra nonsense. What a stellar argument.

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Watchers weren't giants. Their offspring (Nephillim) with the daughters of man were the giants. Lots of giant things in those days though. Trees were 40K ft tall and the archangels came down to cut them down before the flood. The Earth and human gene pool were truly corrupted. Animal slicing. Everything. True wickedness far beyond just some random bad decisions by civilizations. Fallen angels also taught women about makeup and taught men how to make metallic weapons and astrology, etc. Truly crazy times.

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