re: Do you know any lawyers who do immigration?

quote:

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Idk about that. There are a lot of illegals here who would make good citizens. They want nothing more than to work hard, build a family and assimilate to our culture. It's the american dream. I'm glad that there is someone out there helping people like that.

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I don’t necessarily disagree with you, but what makes a good citizen?

If I smoke weed every day and go to my job and otherwise be a productive citizen, but get caught, I go through pretrial diversion.

If an immigrant does the same--even if they are here legally--they are subject to deportation. And under current policy, absolutely will be deported if given the chance.

Despite the fact that all they are doing is living the American dream just like I am. Smoking weed illegally just like a quarter of adult American citizens currently do.

No, "a country" is not obligated to do that. But any country with a republican constitution based on natural rights that are worth a shite should.

"No one else does, why should we?"--Because we are better than they are. That's the whole fricking point of the USA. Do you think that should be our moral standard--treat people the way other worse countries do? Or are we our own thing with our own values that actually mean something? Seriously, you're better than this attitude, Klark.

This particular back-and-forth is discussing when illegal immigrants would make "good citizens" living the "American dream." That is literally the only thing I was responding to. These are literal quotes from the original post that I am referencing.

An American citizen who sells meth to kids and goes through pretrial diversion is a "good citizen" (and yes, this absolutely happens in every jurisdiction). A legal immigrant with a work visa and a joint is subject to deportation. It's stupid.

And many "good citizens" smoke weed. Probably some of your favorite neighbors. I'm not saying doing drugs is the American dream. Maybe not the best example, but point stands.

ETA: It’s also 3 am and I'm still at work, so I may not be expressing myself as clearly as I'd like.

You do realize that people who come here legally under student or work visas often use an immigration attorney to ensure they are filling out paperwork correctly. The process is incredibly convoluted and takes years. I can see where someone would hire an attorney to make sure they didn’t mess up and cost them either time or citizenship

You’re still conflating natural rights with the privileges of citizenship.

Natural rights apply to everyone. Citizenship comes with additional legal protections and permanence that non-citizens simply do not have. That distinction isn’t immoral, it’s foundational to having an actual sovereign nation. You can’t build immigration policy around emotional appeals and expect it to hold up.

And your meth example proves a different point: if citizens are getting absurdly lenient treatment for serious crimes, fix that. Don’t use bad enforcement as justification to erase immigration consequences altogether.

America should be better, yes. But “better” doesn’t mean pretending a visa holder, illegal immigrant, and citizen all exist under the exact same legal framework.


Get some sleep. These problems will still exist on Thursday.