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Message
re: Do you have a concealed & carry license?
Posted on 7/24/15 at 11:11 am to zelman
Posted on 7/24/15 at 11:11 am to zelman
quote:
This is it. I have thought about getting a CCL for a long time, and finally I came to the conclusion that I, who have no training or experience shooting under stressful circumstances, just don't need one. Would probably do more harm than good.
Everyone has to self-assess and make their own determinations. Kudos to you.
Not everyone should carry. I'm not even sure I "should" carry. No sheepdog shite here. But I made the choice I believe is best for me and mine, and accordingly work to make sure I'm carrying that out in the most responsible way I can.
0
Posted on 7/24/15 at 11:13 am to MightyYat
Here's the bottom line when it comes to people being armed and in a situation like what happened last night.
Theater 1
There's one guy who has a firearm, lots of ammo, and wants to kill as many people as possible. No one else in the theater is armed. The shooter is in the back and can cover both exits. You and your family are towards the middle a good distance from any exit.
Theater 2
There's one guy who has a firearm, lots of ammo, and wants to kill as many people as possible. There is one other person in the room with a firearm and is trained and ready to use it. The shooter is in the back and can cover both exits. You and your family are towards the middle a good distance from any exit.
Which theater would you want to be in if you had to choose?
Theater 1
There's one guy who has a firearm, lots of ammo, and wants to kill as many people as possible. No one else in the theater is armed. The shooter is in the back and can cover both exits. You and your family are towards the middle a good distance from any exit.
Theater 2
There's one guy who has a firearm, lots of ammo, and wants to kill as many people as possible. There is one other person in the room with a firearm and is trained and ready to use it. The shooter is in the back and can cover both exits. You and your family are towards the middle a good distance from any exit.
Which theater would you want to be in if you had to choose?
Posted on 7/24/15 at 11:17 am to Salmon
quote:
The situation we were talking about in my post was a guy going into somewhere that has a lot of people he knows are armed like what 480 was talking about in his post.
still
even if the entire room is armed, unless they are on edge, a shooter will still get off more than 1 or 2 shots before someone else can take him down
OK, maybe they get off three or even four shots. What they won't be able to do though is get off as many shots as they want while they go around the room killing again and again with the only restriction being the amount of ammunition they have on them.
Posted on 7/24/15 at 11:18 am to Darth_Vader
quote:
The shooter is in the back and can cover both exits.
almost all theaters have an exit at the bottom
quote:
is trained and ready to use it
that is the thing though
I, in no way, believe that the average CCer is trained, nor ready to use their weapon
Posted on 7/24/15 at 11:19 am to SCUBABlake
quote:
Yes, I do.
If you aren't going to put in the time and effort to train yourself, don't waste your time or money. Become an experienced shooter, if you aren't already. Take classes. Go through tactical training. Otherwise when you need to pull the pistol you won't have any muscle memory or training to reflect and lean on.
Do NOT take CC'ing lightly. It's a huge responsibility. Treat is as such.
So say you are for whatever reason caught in a convenience store without your gun and a guy walks in and opens fire. You'd rather that nobody else there had a gun, unless they had tactical training?
Of course not.
This is an idea being pushed by the training industry because a lot of people now make a good living off of putting everyday joes through combat shooting courses and the like.
I'm not saying training isn't good. I'm saying I would rather be defended by a good guy with a gun, whether or not he was trained, than nobody, and this "you must be trained extensively" idea deters good guys from carrying.
It's an anti-2nd amendment idea, to boot.
Posted on 7/24/15 at 11:20 am to Darth_Vader
quote:
Theater 2
There's one guy who has a firearm, lots of ammo, and wants to kill as many people as possible. There is one other person in the room with a firearm and is trained and ready to use it. The shooter is in the back and can cover both exits. You and your family are towards the middle a good distance from any exit.
Don't like that one. It'll be a shoot out if you have all these concealed carry tough guys. How will you know who is the bad guy if you didn't see the first shot. You WILL NOT hit a target in a dark room. Actually had fire arms training in a law enforcement academy. It's not as easy as some people think, especially with handguns.
And if some frick "accidentally" hit/kill someone I know because they can't see the target...better pray they go to jail.
Posted on 7/24/15 at 11:22 am to Darth_Vader
quote:
The situation we were talking about in my post was a guy going into somewhere that has a lot of people he knows are armed like what 480 was talking about in his post.
I understand what you were referring to and I agree that it's a good deterrent if the assailant doesn't have a death wish.
I still disagree that he could only get a few shots off before being neutralized.
Posted on 7/24/15 at 11:22 am to Salmon
quote:
The shooter is in the back and can cover both exits.
almost all theaters have an exit at the bottom
And if armed with the correct weapon, he can just as easily shoot you down there as at the back exits. Remember the guy in Colorado? He has an AR-15 variant. Shooting someone at the front of a theater from the rear with a rifle like that would be like shooting fish in a barrel from that range.
Posted on 7/24/15 at 11:23 am to bayou2003
quote:
Don't like that one. It'll be a shoot out if you have all these concealed carry tough guys. How will you know who is the bad guy if you didn't see the first shot. You WILL NOT hit a target in a dark room. Actually had fire arms training in a law enforcement academy. It's not as easy as some people think, especially with handguns.
And if some frick "accidentally" hit/kill someone I know because they can't see the target...better pray they go to jail.
Id rather be shot by a good guy trying to stop a monster than the monster himself while we all sat there like ducks on the pond.
The problem with these "Wild West shoot out" things being used as anti-concealed carry arguments is that they never happen, and even if they did, it would still be better than a Va Tech style killing field.
Posted on 7/24/15 at 11:24 am to Salmon
quote:
I, in no way, believe that the average CCer is trained, nor ready to use their weapon
thank you, In Missouri police officers have to go through about a month of firearms training. CCW permit you get licensed in 8 fricking hours.lol.
And we had technology(Simulated shooting) that we used to shoot in stressful environments, multiple shooters, etc....Not easy to hit targets with handguns under stress.
We also had paper targets where you run, shoot, fall, shoot, etc. People think because you have a ccw permit you will be able to hit any target at anytime. Don't work that way.
Posted on 7/24/15 at 11:24 am to Darth_Vader
quote:
And if armed with the correct weapon, he can just as easily shoot you down there as at the back exits
I'm aware
just saying that in your example, he wouldn't be able to block all exits
Posted on 7/24/15 at 11:24 am to Darth_Vader
Plenty of examples where CHL carriers saved lives. Sucks that you have to look for them and they aren't talked about on the evening news.
Posted on 7/24/15 at 11:25 am to TDsngumbo
quote:
Do you have a concealed & carry license?
quote:
It's honestly the only way I'll feel safe and have peace of mind when taking my family out in public.
Jesus Christ
Posted on 7/24/15 at 11:26 am to Salmon
quote:
I, in no way, believe that the average CCer is trained, nor ready to use their weapon
Absolutely not. And a hell of a lot fewer have any sort of actual combat experience.
The rest of the patrons aren't just chilling in their seats waiting their turn. They're screaming, standing, running.
Posted on 7/24/15 at 11:27 am to bayou2003
quote:
People think because you have a ccw permit you will be able to hit any target at anytime.
Who thinks that?
Cops shoot inaccurately all the time. Should they be disarmed because of that?
Posted on 7/24/15 at 11:27 am to Salmon
quote:
I, in no way, believe that the average CCer is trained, nor ready to use their weapon
This
Posted on 7/24/15 at 11:28 am to uway
quote:
Cops shoot inaccurately all the time. Should they be disarmed because of that?
nobody is anti CC in this thread yet
just FYI
Posted on 7/24/15 at 11:28 am to bayou2003
quote:
Don't like that one. It'll be a shoot out if you have all these concealed carry tough guys. How will you know who is the bad guy if you didn't see the first shot. You WILL NOT hit a target in a dark room. Actually had fire arms training in a law enforcement academy. It's not as easy as some people think, especially with handguns.
I know what you're saying. I had firearms training on the M1911 .45 & M9 .9mm specifically in the army both on static target ranges as well as tactical ranges. These were my sidearm during my time in the army. That was over 20 years ago and I still go to the range on a regular basis. I understand their characteristics, capabilities, and shortcomings.
Posted on 7/24/15 at 11:28 am to uway
quote:
Id rather be shot by a good guy trying to stop a monster than the monster himself while we all sat there like ducks on the pond.
The problem with these "Wild West shoot out" things being used as anti-concealed carry arguments is that they never happen, and even if they did, it would still be better than a Va Tech style killing field.
The monster is not going to hit everybody. So you'd be ok with 5-10ccw people in a theater of 50, people shooting at someone that's shooting. If it's dark, how will you know who fired the first shot...how will you know if it's planned or not planned by 2-3 people if another ccw start shooting. Next person with a gun will think the other ccw person is with the shooter or it's planned, etc.
Then you can get a group of people to plan a mass killing, they'll just say they are ccw. Just going to watch a movie.
See how hard that is in a dark theater.
Posted on 7/24/15 at 11:29 am to Salmon
quote:
nobody is anti CC in this thread yet
just FYI
That guy is responded to won't admit that he is, maybe.
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