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Message
re: Do you have a concealed & carry license?
Posted on 7/24/15 at 11:51 am to uway
Posted on 7/24/15 at 11:51 am to uway
quote:
What if you're sitting three seats to his left and he turns to his right first? Would you be able to stop him then?
Yeah, if I'm in the absolute right place at the absolute right time, I drop him.
That's almost as unlikely as ever being in that position in the first place, which has kind of been the point of these last couple of pages.
quote:
AAARRRGHHHHHHHHHH!!!!
ARRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHH!!!
Whew, that was cathartic.
This post was edited on 7/24/15 at 11:53 am
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Posted on 7/24/15 at 11:52 am to Darth_Vader
quote:\
'm in favor of CC everywhere. I'm also in favor of everyone with a CC being trained in both target and tactical use of a firearm in a safe manner.
I'm in favor of more police presence in our theaters and at our schools. Any place where this things can and do occur. I would never put my trust in some random dude with a CC during one of these incidents.
Posted on 7/24/15 at 11:53 am to Walking the Earth
quote:
Get the frick out of here with this oorah bullshite.
It's not bullshite. It's called training.
quote:
You're not clearing an area with your squad. You're a sole defender with an active shooter that you were in no way, shape or form expecting.
You're not going to OODA your way to a solution. You're either hitting the deck, running or immediately responding.
Take cover, identify and engage? Jesus...this shite is over in seconds. If protecting civilians is the goal, you pretty much have to respond immediately and either drop him or draw his fire.
What you don't understand, and this goes back to your ignorance on this subject, the purpose of training is to give you the ability to do those three things in a matter of seconds.
Posted on 7/24/15 at 11:53 am to bayou2003
quote:
Most can't hit a damn target 10-20ft away with a handgun in daylight under calm conditions
Almost everyone I've ever took to the range for the first time did this the first time. I'm not downplaying the difficulty of the situation you describe, but you're playing it up more than is needed.
I'm pretty confident most every "gun guy" I know could make a 10 foot shot on target in the dark. I expect most could make a <7 yard shot. Now, with people moving? While under fire? From a weird angle? With shooter moving? From elevated position? Those are all variables that are totally valid and which I agree could impact the situation.
Moreover, I bet there are people I know who don't train enough who probably would far surpass the performance of those I know who do train a lot. People vary in my experience, some react well to chaos and some, despite preparation, do not.
While I'm totally on board with your eliminating the illusion of range-like performance in this hypo, you're also making it out to be a pretty static thing ("only the elite could do_____") when I don't think that is true either.
This post was edited on 7/24/15 at 11:54 am
Posted on 7/24/15 at 11:54 am to Mullet Flap
quote:
I'm in favor of more police presence in our theaters and at our schools. Any place where this things can and do occur. I would never put my trust in some random dude with a CC during one of these incidents.
I don't want to put my trust into another random dude with a CC permit either. That's why I am a CC permit holder myself.
Posted on 7/24/15 at 11:55 am to Darth_Vader
quote:
the purpose of training is to give you the ability to do those three things in a matter of seconds.
Of which someone who obtains a CC permit obviously has not nearly enough as a police officer/military
Posted on 7/24/15 at 11:56 am to Mullet Flap
quote:
Alright
I'll tell you why i think it's not a good idea, at all..You've got 15 armed men/women in a theater. You really think people are going to to want to go see a movie not knowing who all has a gun. Furthermore, pretty much any nut job can get a CC permit.
Pretty much any nut job can do anything. Makes zero sense as an argument against cc.
Most of the people are going to run. I'd rather increase the chances of bad guy getting shot even if it's still small.
quote:
You mean to tell me you'd rather have 15 dudes you don't even know with handguns in a theater vs. a couple of trained officers and a birds eye view of anything going down in the theater?
A couple of trained officers? Where does that happen? Show me that place and I will feel pretty good about going there.
Posted on 7/24/15 at 11:56 am to Darth_Vader
quote:
don't want to put my trust into another random dude with a CC permit either. That's why I am a CC permit holder myself.
And that's good. I'm simply saying i don't think a movie theater is the place for people to be carrying in guns save the officers that are monitoring the movie
Posted on 7/24/15 at 11:57 am to Mullet Flap
quote:
Of which someone who obtains a CC permit obviously has not nearly enough as a police officer/military
Some permit holders can absolutely outshoot police officers or members of the military. Honestly I have little faith in the average cop, military member or CCer to make some circus shot in a chaotic situation. But then, that's not why I CC.
Posted on 7/24/15 at 11:57 am to Darth_Vader
quote:
It's not bull shite. It's called training.
In your case, it's bullshite.
You haven't given one scenario how you would have handled anything differently or how you avoid collateral damage.
quote:
What you don't understand, and this goes back to your ignorance on this subject, the purpose of training is to give you the ability to do those three things in a matter of seconds.
By all means, educate me.
This post was edited on 7/24/15 at 11:59 am
Posted on 7/24/15 at 11:57 am to Darth_Vader
quote:
I don't want to put my trust into another random dude with a CC permit either. That's why I am a CC permit holder myself.
I agree...I don't know about other states, but in this state you don't spend many hours training...over in Kansas they just passed a law you can carry without a permit...
Now imagine if that shite happened in Kansas, no training required...people thinking they are a good shooter trying to stop a target in a dark theater. Boy that could get nasty.
Posted on 7/24/15 at 11:59 am to bayou2003
quote:
Now imagine if that shite happened in Kansas, no training required...people thinking they are a good shooter trying to stop a target in a dark theater. Boy that could get nasty.
I mean, it'll happen one day. And depending on the circumstances I can't say with any certainty it's likely to get nastier than it already is, where someone is attempting to perform a mass killing.
Posted on 7/24/15 at 12:00 pm to uway
quote:
Pretty much any nut job can do anything. Makes zero sense as an argument against cc.
It most certainly does. You're proposing letting a bunch of dudes with just a little bit of training into theaters with loaded handguns vs. making a theater a high security area
quote:
'd rather increase the chances of bad guy getting shot even if it's still small.
Which is why we increase the amount of security at these places with trained officials, not billy bob and his CC permit.
quote:
A couple of trained officers? Where does that happen? Show me that place and I will feel pretty good about going there.
Well, off the bat..The Cinemark in Gulfport where i lived last usually had a few officers every night that would stand at the entrance and monitor the movie a few times. I wish they'd do that everywhere
Posted on 7/24/15 at 12:00 pm to TDsngumbo
Of course.
I'm sure it's already been covered but if you conceal a firearm into a firearm free zone you are setting yourself up for lawsuits and/or charges if you have to use it.
I'm sure it's already been covered but if you conceal a firearm into a firearm free zone you are setting yourself up for lawsuits and/or charges if you have to use it.
Posted on 7/24/15 at 12:00 pm to Mullet Flap
quote:
I would never put my trust in some random dude with a CC during one of these incidents.
It completely depends on the situation. You absolutely would if it was the best option available. And your statement shows a lack of trust in the abilities of your fellow humans that you don't believe deep down. If the average person was as untrustworthy as yall make him out to be, you would never leave your house.
Posted on 7/24/15 at 12:00 pm to Pettifogger
quote:
I mean, it'll happen one day. And depending on the circumstances I can't say with any certainty it's likely to get nastier than it already is, where someone is attempting to perform a mass killing.
It'll set a shitload of legal precedents.
If someone responds to what is essentially a terrorist attack and kills another civilian, how does that work?
Posted on 7/24/15 at 12:01 pm to Pettifogger
quote:
Some permit holders can absolutely outshoot police officers or members of the military. Honestly I have little faith in the average cop, military member or CCer to make some circus shot in a chaotic situation. But then, that's not why I CC.
Anyone can hypothetical their way to anywhere. My point is that the officers have more training and thus would theoretically be a safer option, in my view.
Posted on 7/24/15 at 12:02 pm to uway
And when it's in a movie theater, like I said before elsewhere on here, you're dealing with multiple sensory issues.
-Sound effects from the movie
-Darkness
-Possibile civilian casualties
-Sound effects from the movie
-Darkness
-Possibile civilian casualties
Posted on 7/24/15 at 12:03 pm to uway
quote:
And your statement shows a lack of trust in the abilities of your fellow humans that you don't believe deep down. If the average person was as untrustworthy as yall make him out to be, you would never leave your house.
I think you know i'm speaking relative to the other option which is a trained official, of which i have mentioned several times.
Posted on 7/24/15 at 12:04 pm to Walking the Earth
quote:
In your case, it's bullshite.
You haven't given one scenario how you would have handled anything differently or how you avoid collateral damage.
You're looking for 100% guarantees in a world were that's a pie in the sky dream. There's no way to guarantee there would not be any collateral damage. All you can do in that situation is fall back on your training, which you obviously know nothing about, and do your best to stop the shooter as fast as possible to save as many lives as possible.
As for handling things differently, I've already told you. Take cover, identify the target, and engage the target. This can be as simple as dropping down behind a seat and looking for where the muzzle flashes are coming from before returning fire and hopefully at least stopping him from firing at others and instead get his attention on you wile everyone else hopefully gets away.
quote:
By all means, educate me
Get you a firearm, meet me on the range, and I'll be glad to educate you.
This post was edited on 7/24/15 at 12:06 pm
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