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Message
re: Derek Chauvin trial - GUILTY ON ALL CHARGES. Update: His sentencing is today
Posted on 4/10/21 at 4:48 pm to Gamera
Posted on 4/10/21 at 4:48 pm to Gamera
quote:
How could anyone looking at GF know he had a heart condition? The corollary is without those heart conditions the subdual and restraint doesn’t result in death.
For 3rd degree murder the act must be “eminently dangerous to others.” How could an act that wouldn’t normally result in death be considered eminently dangerous?
Similarly, for manslaughter the defendant must commit “culpable negligence whereby the person creates an unreasonable risk, and consciously takes chances of causing death or great bodily harm to another.” If he survives but for his unknown cardiac issues - how does one conclude the act created an unreasonable risk? Further, how can it be said one is consciously taking chances of causing death?
There is a lot of emotion involved and unbelievable pressure on the jury, so who knows. But this certainly raises substantial, much less reasonable doubt of guilt.
Perfectly summed up in 4 paragraphs, sir.
My guess is, if you removed emotion, bias, and societal pressure from the equation (stuff that shouldn't matter legally), people like AMS would've changed their tune a while back.
What they're solely running on right now is a preconceived bias they formed nearly a year ago (in AMS' case) and a refusal to admit they were wrong, or duped by the media who only released what they wanted to in order to make a juicy story.
They're constantly moving goalposts and interpreting new revelations to fit their biases and what they WANT to believe/hear. Not what they should be hearing.
There are several posters in this thread - myself included - that admonished Chauvin when the original video came out. As a federal law enforcement officer myself, I even said something to the tune of "officers like Chauvin give us ALL a bad name and should've never been allowed to be police. We're trained to put our knee on the back between the shoulder blades, not the neck!"
I was pissed, as I thought it gave us all a black eye, raised racial tensions between officers and the public, and made my job harder than it already was.
As it turns out, even the "knee on the neck for 9+ minutes" turned out to be false. I've slowly changed my stance to 'Chauvin isn't guilty of anything, but shouldn't be a police officer. Floyd is responsible for Floyd's death' as new facts and video angles have come to light.
I've put my knee on a combative perp's upper back for over 5 minutes before with no adverse outcomes. I do it all the time, we all do. I don't have an ounce of hate in my heart for even the worst of the worst I arrest, I'm ju7st there to do a job to keep the public, and my friends and family, safe. And I also want to live to see my friends and family another day.
There's lots of armchair quarterbacking going on with this case from people like AMS who have no real world experience, that think it's "SO EASY!" to make split second decisions in the heat of the moment when there's undue amounts of pressure from every angle. I can tell you firsthand, officers are humans first and we have our own fight or flight instincts to combat before we do anything. It's not easy.
All that being said, I still found fault with Chauvin's actions at first and for the first couple months. I've changed my mind after learning more, as have several others currently posting in this thread.
Why SOME cannot bring it upon themselves to admit they were wrong or misled, most likely speaks to their ego, insecurity, and fragility. It's not hard.
1
Posted on 4/10/21 at 4:49 pm to wileyjones
Why though? I used to back the blue as much as anyone until that disgraceful spectacle last year where cities were allowed to burn, law abiding citizens were arrested for protecting their property, and business owners were harassed and destroyed by these idiots you guys keep putting on a pedestal. Cops have shown they’re more than happy to attack and destroy the citizenry they are sworn to serve and protect while letting animals run wild. Why are you all still boot licking for these frickers? When dementia Joe issues his executive orders who do you think will be knocking on your door looking to take your 2nd amendment rights away? Cops are soulless, brainless tools of the government and our government is as corrupt and failed as it could possibly be. Federal right down to the local Barney fifes don’t give a frick about doing the right thing. Why are you still supporting them? You want to back the blue and sure as frick don’t back you. They proved it all last year and continue to do so
Posted on 4/10/21 at 4:50 pm to SOSFAN
True, Nelson is doing his damndest to argue that the death was due to drug overdose, but I believe he's got an uphill battle all the way on that simply due to the glaring lack of that specifically noted in the reports of the medical examiners. Nelson will have to show that both coroners were equally incompetent and/or influenced by political pressure in some way. For better or worse, I don't think he'll be able to convince the jury that GF would have died whether DC was applying the pressure depicted in the video or not....however one prefers to describe that. On a related note, I don't think any of the testimony regarding the placement of the knee will make a hill of beans. The jurors will simply make their conclusions about that based on what their own eyes see. What those conclusions are remains to be seen.
This post was edited on 4/10/21 at 4:52 pm
Posted on 4/10/21 at 4:52 pm to LightMerchant
quote:
Well, given it is only speculation it doesn’t require any supporting evidence.
Oh, ok.
But your speculation is biased because you are anti-police and BLM supporter. And therefore irrelevant.
Of course, I'm just speculating.
This post was edited on 4/10/21 at 4:55 pm
Posted on 4/10/21 at 4:56 pm to davyjones
You must not being watching the case then
Posted on 4/10/21 at 4:57 pm to davyjones
quote:
True, Nelson is doing his damndest to argue that the death was due to drug overdose, but I believe he's got an uphill battle all the
Nelson did such a good job, with the drug issue, it made the prosecution switch their approach over the weekend. The prosecution doesn't come across as have a clear cut gameplan and maybe thats due to them using 3 different prosecutors to ask questions. Nelson has stayed with his game plan and done a fantastic job hammering on the drug issue. For the liberal media to be giving Nelson large amounts of credit and have also started questioning the prosecutions approach says alot about how the case is going. The defense hasn't even started their case but Nelson has clearly forced the trial into the direction he wants
Posted on 4/10/21 at 4:58 pm to RazorBroncs
quote:
Why SOME cannot bring it upon themselves to admit they were wrong or misled, most likely speaks to their ego, insecurity, and fragility. It's not hard.
You were fallible before, but suddenly no longer fallible. This time you can only be RIGHT.
Posted on 4/10/21 at 5:00 pm to SOSFAN
I give Nelson a lot of credit as well, don't get me wrong. But what evidence is there to rebut the legal findings of the medical examiners? Evidence that would make the jurors toss the findings of the MEs out of the window?
This post was edited on 4/10/21 at 5:02 pm
Posted on 4/10/21 at 5:02 pm to SOSFAN
But Davey Jones disagrees lol and the defense hasn’t even presented its cases lol
Posted on 4/10/21 at 5:06 pm to theenemy
Dude, I just shared what I THINK may have been going on with Chauvin. I did not present it as fact.
It was just brain-storming as to POSSIBLE reasons behind Chauvin’s action.
Just as people have speculated as to Floyd’s actions and mindset. Just as people have speculated as to why Trayvon Martin was buying Skittles and fruit-drank.
It was just brain-storming as to POSSIBLE reasons behind Chauvin’s action.
Just as people have speculated as to Floyd’s actions and mindset. Just as people have speculated as to why Trayvon Martin was buying Skittles and fruit-drank.
Posted on 4/10/21 at 5:06 pm to lsuson
Bro we've got like 335 pages of mostly disagreement and discussion and opinion sharing etc etc. My few posts/opinions here doesn't really stoke the fire I wouldn't think.
Posted on 4/10/21 at 5:07 pm to davyjones
quote:
evidence is there to rebut the legal findings of the medical
The ME basically said a combination of Floyds health, drugs and the stress from being restrained. The ME also said the level of Fentanyl in Floyd has been seen in overdose cases and has actually seen deaths with lower amounts. All Nelson needs is 1 jurist to have reasonable doubt and there is plenty of that due to Nelson.
Posted on 4/10/21 at 5:08 pm to davyjones
quote:
My few posts/opinions here doesn't really stoke the fire I wouldn't think.
Compared to Ams and her/it new alter you're a breeze.
Posted on 4/10/21 at 5:10 pm to RLDSC FAN
Is there an “official cause of death”?
Does the cause of death cited on the death certificate constitute an “official cause of death”? Or only an “official OPINION as to cause of death”?
Does the cause of death cited on the death certificate constitute an “official cause of death”? Or only an “official OPINION as to cause of death”?
Posted on 4/10/21 at 5:16 pm to SOSFAN
quote:
The ME basically said a combination of Floyds health, drugs and the stress from being restrained. The ME also said the level of Fentanyl in Floyd has been seen in overdose cases and has actually seen deaths with lower amounts.
I'm with you on all that, but what Nelson's asking the jury to do is disregard the findings in the official reports and substitute findings that he's setting up. Essentially that Floyd would have died whether Chauvin's knee was wherever it was or not. That's just a lot to ask of a jury. Juries tend to like their local officials, i.e. county coroners and the like.
As far as the cause of death is concerned, it will be county coroners' "official" findings....vs.....after the fact explanation by defense experts, who again will be asking the jury to accept that the two MEs were both wrong in at least some key conclusions.
Posted on 4/10/21 at 5:16 pm to LightMerchant
quote:
Dude, I just shared what I THINK may have been going on with Chauvin. I did not present it as fact.
Just busting your balls a little. I posted that tongue in cheek...lol.
Posted on 4/10/21 at 5:17 pm to SOSFAN
When one is accused of being an alter, what is the protocol for response?
Delete one’s account immediately?
I get why y’all do the alt accusation thing. As a weapon against opinions / posters you dislike ( and also just tweaking of another person ). But it’s lame. The accused has no means of disproving it. Which is what makes it a great tweak.
Fine, whatever. Hit me with the alt accusation at will. At least I’ve not been banned as I was on Twitter and Reddit. Not yet, anyway. Give it another week. I already committed the sin of evidencing a claim I made about Trump. So my time here is likely going to be short. To your pleasure.
Delete one’s account immediately?
I get why y’all do the alt accusation thing. As a weapon against opinions / posters you dislike ( and also just tweaking of another person ). But it’s lame. The accused has no means of disproving it. Which is what makes it a great tweak.
Fine, whatever. Hit me with the alt accusation at will. At least I’ve not been banned as I was on Twitter and Reddit. Not yet, anyway. Give it another week. I already committed the sin of evidencing a claim I made about Trump. So my time here is likely going to be short. To your pleasure.
This post was edited on 4/10/21 at 5:19 pm
Posted on 4/10/21 at 5:20 pm to LightMerchant
quote:
Does the cause of death cited on the death certificate constitute an “official cause of death”? Or only an “official OPINION as to cause of death”?
Yes and yes.
Official for statistical purposes and administrative purposes.
Opinion for court purposes.
As the ME explained it, it is "completely different worlds" between the two.
This post was edited on 4/10/21 at 5:22 pm
Posted on 4/10/21 at 5:40 pm to theenemy
quote:
Graham v. Conor also allows for officers to make mistakes due to the court recognizing that officers are making split second decisions in stressful situations.
I think you also can say due to all the complications in that situation, such as:
-floyds size and resistance
-floyds drug use
-floyds medical issues
-the hostility and distraction of the crowd
it is reasonable that the police made mistakes.
For certain, easier to look at in retrospect knowing Floyd died, knowing he was on heavy drugs, knowing his past medical issues.
A mistake per se shouldn't be manslaughter. There is certainly judgement involved.
Add into your list..
medical is on-site in front of him in the unresponsive window
They had called medical
People from car told police George wasn't right earlier
Floyd ASKED to get on the ground versus in back of car..wasn't the primary strategy of police
The struggle with Floyd lasted 30 minutes before he was put onto ground
Third officer stated out load he thinks Floyd is "passing out"
Chauvin had on gloves so him checking pulse wasn't realistic (it was the other officer that could have more accurately checked..the one that said he could't feel one)
The third officer in the back did ask 2x within a minute if they should roll him on his side/back
Posted on 4/10/21 at 5:44 pm to theenemy
quote:
I speculated passive-aggression. ( not well-received here ). A possibility is that he was “teaching Floyd a lesson”. Maybe it pissed him off royally that Floyd resisted as he did and made what could have been rather easy into something difficult.
You don't convict people on maybe and speculation.
Those are projected feelings. Nothing verbally said by Chauvin indicates this. There are two other officers directly involved. They worked with Floyd for 30 minutes before he ever went to the ground, after asking to go to the ground.
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