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D-Day was only the first day of a far larger and far more brutal campaign in Normandy...
Posted on 6/7/26 at 3:03 pm
Posted on 6/7/26 at 3:03 pm
The tributes that come in every year on June 6 in regards to the Normandy landings are, of course, well-deserved. However, I feel like they mask a truth that people seem to have forgotten over the prevailing decades. D-Day was only the start of liberation. It would take almost three entire months for the Allies to reach Paris, and the number of men who became casualties of war to to get Paris are staggering.
It is estimated that the United States suffered around 6,000 casualties on June 6, 1944 (2,501 of which were KIA). For the Battle of Normandy as a whole, the United States suffered 135,000 total casualties (29,000 of which were KIA). Operation Overlord was far larger than just the beach landings. It was a brutal, Eastern Front-style campaign that saw total casualties for the Allies and Germans soar to over 500,000 killed, wounded, and missing/captured.
I guess the reason why I made this thread is for people to understand that the battle wasn't won on the beaches of Omaha, but in the streets of Carentan and St. Lo, in the battered buildings of Caen, and in the small, irregular fields of the Norman bocage.
It is estimated that the United States suffered around 6,000 casualties on June 6, 1944 (2,501 of which were KIA). For the Battle of Normandy as a whole, the United States suffered 135,000 total casualties (29,000 of which were KIA). Operation Overlord was far larger than just the beach landings. It was a brutal, Eastern Front-style campaign that saw total casualties for the Allies and Germans soar to over 500,000 killed, wounded, and missing/captured.
I guess the reason why I made this thread is for people to understand that the battle wasn't won on the beaches of Omaha, but in the streets of Carentan and St. Lo, in the battered buildings of Caen, and in the small, irregular fields of the Norman bocage.
14
Posted on 6/7/26 at 3:05 pm to RollTide1987
quote:
I guess the reason why I made this thread is for people to understand that the battle wasn't won on the beaches of Omaha, but in the streets of Carentan and St. Lo, in the battered buildings of Caen, and in the small, irregular fields of the Norman bocage.
How many people believe that it was won on D-Day?
On second thought, don’t answer that. I probably don’t want to know
Posted on 6/7/26 at 4:05 pm to Sun God
Biggest surprise were the hedgerows.
Posted on 6/7/26 at 4:18 pm to RollTide1987
I understand why June 6 receives so much focus, and rightfully so. But if the landings had failed, there would have been no breakout from Normandy, no liberation of Paris, and perhaps a very different course for the war in Western Europe. D-Day was not the victory itself, but it was the crucial first step toward victory.
Posted on 6/7/26 at 4:24 pm to RollTide1987
my grandfather was the 2nd wave to hit the beaches. He spoke very little about that but did say to me once, when we had them on the run, we didn't stop, I walked over France to Germany
Posted on 6/7/26 at 5:27 pm to RollTide1987
Speaking of beach and amphibious landings, I’ve been doing a lot of reading about Okinawa, Iwojima, Peleliu, Guadalcanal, etc. in the Pacific. Absolutely brutal some of that fighting and it lasted for months at a time on a small piece of real estate in the middle of the ocean. Every yard was contested in some of those places. 21,000 Japanese troops on Iwojima and only 216 were taken prisoner. I don’t think even the Germans were that insane to fight to the death. Fanatical level of belief.
This post was edited on 6/7/26 at 5:29 pm
Posted on 6/7/26 at 5:38 pm to Sofaking2
quote:
I’ve been doing a lot of reading about Okinawa, Iwojima, Peleliu, Guadalcanal, etc. in the Pacific
Helmet for My Pillow and With the Old Breed should be required reading in high school
Posted on 6/7/26 at 6:00 pm to RollTide1987
quote:
St. Lo
Speaking of required reading, Clay Pigeons of St Lo by Glover Johns should be on this list. Not only did this man have to command an entire battalion of men who were essentially sacrificed by higher command for the "big picture," but he was influential in the career of David Hackworth who later wrote About Face.
frickin legend.
Posted on 6/7/26 at 6:16 pm to RollTide1987
What gets even less discussion and credit is the intelligence work and planning that went into D-day.
There are some amazing articles and documentaries on how it was planned, kept secret, misdirected, and finally triggered and executed.
My particular favorite is reading how they used crossword puzzles in the public newspapers across London and southern England to transmit orders and status updates.
There are some amazing articles and documentaries on how it was planned, kept secret, misdirected, and finally triggered and executed.
My particular favorite is reading how they used crossword puzzles in the public newspapers across London and southern England to transmit orders and status updates.
Posted on 6/7/26 at 6:20 pm to Purplehaze
quote:
Biggest surprise were the hedgerows.
It’s always boggled my mind how the Allies were so ill prepared for the hedgerows in Normandy. They had been smuggling agents in and out of Northern France for almost two years at that point. They had God only knows how many thousands of arial recon photographs of quite literally every square inch of France from the Normandy coast clear to Paris. I could kinda understand the Americans not being that familiar with the rural countryside in Normandy France, but the Brits too? They live right across the channel!
Posted on 6/7/26 at 7:02 pm to Sofaking2
Can I recommend this book?
Posted on 6/7/26 at 7:09 pm to CR4090
quote:
Can I recommend this book?
No, only I can recommend books
Is the book about the Japanese offensives? They took advantage of so many Euro-centric political issues that allowed them to absolutely blow through invasions. The British, the French, the Dutch, all of them had more pressing matters to deal with in their homelands that kept them from properly defending colonies.
The quagmires of American offenses to retake ground in the pacific could hardly be described as a "blitzkrieg" IMO.
Posted on 6/7/26 at 7:14 pm to Purplehaze
quote:
Biggest surprise were the hedgerows.
I think I read that the planners didn’t realize how tall they were from the aerial photos.
Turns out they needed specialized bulldozer attachments for the tanks to get through.
Posted on 6/7/26 at 9:37 pm to RollTide1987
Grandpa gave me a great book on the whole normandy battle (battles often last weeks and months).
The bird's eye view was that allied victory was inevitable at that point, at least once we had any meaningful beach head. But that foothold and the ensuing push were made by a combination of three things: Hitler's micromanagement of the Panzers and the western theater general's semi absence delayed a meaningful response by the Nazis mildly but effectively, AIR SUPPORT WON IT FOR US harassing the Germans day and night, and of course russia wearing germany down in the east.
The bird's eye view was that allied victory was inevitable at that point, at least once we had any meaningful beach head. But that foothold and the ensuing push were made by a combination of three things: Hitler's micromanagement of the Panzers and the western theater general's semi absence delayed a meaningful response by the Nazis mildly but effectively, AIR SUPPORT WON IT FOR US harassing the Germans day and night, and of course russia wearing germany down in the east.
Posted on 6/7/26 at 10:41 pm to RollTide1987
Knowing where we have ended up…was it worth it?
This post was edited on 6/7/26 at 11:14 pm
Posted on 6/7/26 at 11:23 pm to tide06
Those bulldozer attachments were the brainchild of Sgt Curtis Culin of 2nd Armored. They used the Czech hedgehog water defenses material to create the rhino tank.
Posted on 6/8/26 at 1:25 am to Legba007
quote:
my grandfather was the 2nd wave to hit the beaches. He spoke very little about that but did say to me once, when we had them on the run, we didn't stop, I walked over France to Germany
My great uncle and your grandfather ate the same sand in the second wave. I’ve wondered through the years how much the second wave and later folks were told about how the first wave went.
Posted on 6/8/26 at 7:13 am to RollTide1987
Most of my classmates had dads in WWII. None were involved in D Day.
On a side note, after a running workout with a teammate in the Summer of 1972, we were at his house with his dad who told us about his storming a beach in the Pacific. It wasn't Iwo Jima. He was 18 fresh out of bootcamp and some training before being shipped out. He laughed then said, I pissed my pants I was so scared. We were all scared. 1st Wave.
On a side note, after a running workout with a teammate in the Summer of 1972, we were at his house with his dad who told us about his storming a beach in the Pacific. It wasn't Iwo Jima. He was 18 fresh out of bootcamp and some training before being shipped out. He laughed then said, I pissed my pants I was so scared. We were all scared. 1st Wave.
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