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re: Cop shoots drunk disorderly fireman who should have complied

Posted on 2/28/14 at 10:36 am to
Posted by WDE24
Member since Oct 2010
54697 posts
Posted on 2/28/14 at 10:36 am to
quote:

Although police officers often say they are on duty 24 hours a day, it is more accurate to say
that their commission as peace officers imposes duties and grants authority to them to respond
to certain criminal acts regardless of whether or not they are “on duty.” Police officers have a
duty to “preserve the peace” within their jurisdiction as authorized by law (Texas Code of
Criminal Procedure §2.13). That duty is not limited to their assigned shift during which they
are paid by the city. Within their jurisdiction, officers have the authority and obligation to
make arrests without warrants for various offenses enumerated in Texas Code of Criminal
Procedure §14.03 (a) 1-6. An officer’s authority to make arrests without warrants outside of
his or her jurisdiction is limited to felonies, assault, disorderly conduct or public intoxication
that takes place in his or her presence Texas Code of Criminal Procedure §14.03 (d).


quote:

In short, although an officer may be off duty and working
as a security guard, certain crimes committed in his or her
presence trigger the officer’s duty to act as a police officer
in the furtherance of his or her official duties. In those
circumstances, the officer acts as a police officer and must
comply with the policies established by the police
department, not the policies of the private employer


ETA: This is for Texas and not Missouri, but you get the point.
This post was edited on 2/28/14 at 10:39 am
Posted by ULSU
Tasmania
Member since Jan 2014
3931 posts
Posted on 2/28/14 at 10:37 am to
quote:

wow....Maybe Im different but I dont think shooting the guy was necessary. Didnt seem life and death to me and isnt the police officer trained to useother evasive tactics rather than blowign a guy away like that.


No man. Cops aren't supposed to resort to crazy MMA escapes from dudes pounding their face on the pavement. Cop was totally within his rights to shoot the guy. Who punches a uniformed cop like that?
This post was edited on 2/28/14 at 10:49 am
Posted by lsupride87
Member since Dec 2007
104861 posts
Posted on 2/28/14 at 10:37 am to
quote:

Stopping someone and arresting them are not the same.
This guy was belligerently drunk, and had assaulted a cab driver. He needed to be arrested for himself and others
Posted by GRTiger
On a roof eating alligator pie
Member since Dec 2008
66140 posts
Posted on 2/28/14 at 10:41 am to
It's weird that this information has to be explained to someone who has devoted his life to bashing police.

I wonder if it ever occurred to him to ask why a business would specifically hire a police officer for a security detail if his ability to make arrests while performing in that capacity are revoked.
Posted by Sophandros
Victoria Concordia Crescit
Member since Feb 2005
45218 posts
Posted on 2/28/14 at 10:41 am to
True. I was just pointing out the flaw in the robbery example.

Bouncers hold people down until on duty cops get to the scene all the time.

I take umbrage with the sentiment that the guy should have "complied". You have no requirement to comply to an order from a fellow citizen.
Posted by Festus
With Skillet
Member since Nov 2009
85722 posts
Posted on 2/28/14 at 10:43 am to
I just want him to post, or explain, where he obtains that information to state it as a definite fact, as he does. Or, to admit he just states stuff before he thinks, and admit that he has no idea what he's talking about.

Instead of stating something as fact, then disappearing.
Posted by GRTiger
On a roof eating alligator pie
Member since Dec 2008
66140 posts
Posted on 2/28/14 at 10:43 am to
quote:

Bouncers hold people down until on duty cops get to the scene all the time.


You are comparing a bouncer to a police officer on a security detail? Are you stating this officer is the exact same thing as you or me responding to a crime we witnessed?
Posted by ULSU
Tasmania
Member since Jan 2014
3931 posts
Posted on 2/28/14 at 10:46 am to
quote:

police officer shows up. He has now exposed his employer, the hotel to liability in his need to be a supercop to stop a drunk walking down the street.


Did you even pay attention to the story? The drunk guy had just beaten up a cabbie and refused to pay the fare for his probably drunk wop cousin.
Posted by Sophandros
Victoria Concordia Crescit
Member since Feb 2005
45218 posts
Posted on 2/28/14 at 10:47 am to
I'm saying that there is no problem with his trying to control the situation, and cited bouncers holding down drunk and disorderly people until on duty cops arrive to support the point.

If a bouncer can stop a drunk from harming himself and others, surely an off duty cop can.

Posted by GRTiger
On a roof eating alligator pie
Member since Dec 2008
66140 posts
Posted on 2/28/14 at 10:49 am to
Of course he can. The difference is, the cop can also make a lawful arrest without having to wait for an on-duty cop. The bouncer cannot.

That is specifically why places hire cops to do their security detail and not some jacked up college kid.
Posted by Hammertime
Will trade dowsing rod for titties
Member since Jan 2012
43031 posts
Posted on 2/28/14 at 10:52 am to
So if I go after a guy and we fight, he gets me on my back and starts hitting me, it's okay for me to shoot him?

Hmm, good to know next time I don't like someone.


Cop should've radioed for backup as soon as it started. A lot of them take martial arts(krav maga) to get out of these exact situations. They have to pay for it out of their own pockets. This guy obviously did not
Posted by WDE24
Member since Oct 2010
54697 posts
Posted on 2/28/14 at 10:55 am to
quote:

So if I go after a guy and we fight, he gets me on my back and starts hitting me, it's okay for me to shoot him?
Depends on the laws of the jurisdiction you are in. However, if you are a police officer attempting to apprehend and arrest a suspect under similar circumstances as reported in this case, then the answer is yes.

quote:

Cop should've radioed for backup as soon as it started.
The cops were already called. He also asked the bystanders who were videotaping to call for back up.
This post was edited on 2/28/14 at 10:56 am
Posted by Child of the Missip
Member since May 2012
1522 posts
Posted on 2/28/14 at 11:25 am to
Why didn't he drop his knee in his back while the perp was face down and wait for back up?

Out of all the weapons he had at his disposal why did he go for his gun?

That situation seemed like a baton/mace/taser would have done the job.

That cop was pretty quick on the trigger, seems like a pussy. If your a cop why evolve with the violence of the perp. If he starts fighting you it's either you or him so use extreme force(baton, taser, mace) but don't shoot an unarmed man.
Posted by DanTiger
Somewhere in Luziana
Member since Sep 2004
9480 posts
Posted on 2/28/14 at 11:35 am to
quote:

So if I go after a guy and we fight, he gets me on my back and starts hitting me, it's okay for me to shoot him?


Happened around here not that long ago. A husband and wife were fighting in St. Charles parish after a party, I believe, and the husband started beating the wife. A fellow in his 50s, under 150lbs, tried to stob the husband who was over 6' and 240lbs and the husband started beating him. The husband got the guy on the ground and started to beat him just like that policeman was being beaten and the guy on the ground took out a pocket knife and stabbed the husband in the heart. He walked away scott free because he felt his life was in danger.
Posted by tketaco
Sunnyside, Houston
Member since Jan 2010
21195 posts
Posted on 2/28/14 at 11:36 am to
Idiots filming cracked me up in the end.

"Don't fight the cop, don't fight the..... Ohhh Ohhh! "
(pew, pew)

Then turn the camera as it happens.
Posted by chesty
Flap City C.C.
Member since Oct 2012
12731 posts
Posted on 2/28/14 at 11:43 am to
That's terrible and shame one all of those people who could have intervened or helped. That's awful
Posted by FelicianaTigerfan
Comanche County
Member since Aug 2009
26059 posts
Posted on 2/28/14 at 11:46 am to
quote:

That cop was pretty quick on the trigger
Any slower and he would have been unconscious and completely unable to defend himself

quote:

seems like a pussy
He pursued a fleeing suspect who had already shown signs of aggression.Problem was, he caught a tiger by the tail when he caught him

quote:

If your a cop why evolve with the violence of the perp
Defensive tactics training states that level of force should be one step higher than that of the resisting suspect

quote:

If he starts fighting you it's either you or him so use extreme force(baton, taser, mace) but don't shoot an unarmed man.


Some times you go from low levels of resistance to deadly force. Some one could be passive resistant and just not giving up their hands to be cuffed and suddenly one move later and its a fight for your life and deadly force is necessary.



Posted by LSU1NSEC
Member since Sep 2007
17243 posts
Posted on 2/28/14 at 11:49 am to
maybe police depts should do a pilot program using non-lethal ammo and look at the data
Posted by Hammertime
Will trade dowsing rod for titties
Member since Jan 2012
43031 posts
Posted on 2/28/14 at 11:54 am to
Next time I get in a fight, I'm gonna yell two things..."quit resisting" and "my life is in danger". I should be good to shoot the guy then, right?
Posted by Itismemc
LA
Member since Nov 2008
4769 posts
Posted on 2/28/14 at 11:54 am to
Nobody's found what the wedding announcement yet?
I wanna see what the wife looked like... Maybe he was having regrets and saw suicide by cop as his only way out.
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