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re: Colorado deputies shoot and kill man who asked for help after car crash
Posted on 9/14/22 at 11:27 am to SlowFlowPro
Posted on 9/14/22 at 11:27 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
That's the question
Seems to have been answered.
quote:quote:
The dude called them, didn't he?
yes
quote:
(1) they could have left earlier after an initial check
They could have. The question is should they have. Given available information, I think it's clear they shouldn't have.
quote:
(2) at that point, which is what the state police supervisor was pointing out, there didn't seem to be a justification for them to remain
Maybe the supervisor didn't have all available information, wasn't there, or is an idiot. Maybe all of the above.
0
Posted on 9/14/22 at 11:27 am to DisplacedBuckeye
quote:He called 911. That shouldn't be considered a call for cops. Maybe we should enable dispatchers to call tow trucks.
What are the cops doing there? The dude called them, didn't he?
Posted on 9/14/22 at 11:27 am to BuckyCheese
quote:Colorado
Is this England?
Posted on 9/14/22 at 11:27 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
That doesn't seem to be what the SP supervisor said/implied.
We've been through this. The supervisor states that IF a crime has not been committed then there is no reason for them to be there. That's much different than stating that no crime has been committed, which would have been difficult for him to know given he wasn't on the scene.
Posted on 9/14/22 at 11:27 am to SlowFlowPro
[link=(Go to 5:47 of the body cam video)]https://player.vimeo.com/video/748908079?h=1a7176f1c4[/link]
Clearly this is edited, but the supervisor's comments and the follow up are making the assumption no crime has been committed.
There isn't any response about DUI/impairment. What documented statement/evidence is there about this? I don't see any in the article.
Clearly this is edited, but the supervisor's comments and the follow up are making the assumption no crime has been committed.
There isn't any response about DUI/impairment. What documented statement/evidence is there about this? I don't see any in the article.
Posted on 9/14/22 at 11:28 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
quote:
What are the cops doing there?
That's the question
quote:
The dude called them, didn't he?
yes but (1) they could have left earlier after an initial check and (2) at that point, which is what the state police supervisor was pointing out, there didn't seem to be a justification for them to remain
so a supervisor who's probably 3 to 4 steps removed from the direct situation makes an initial judgment that there's no issue and no reason to remain. Did you watch the video? Clearly that supervisor was wrong and the cops did the right thing at that point and remained on scene.
Posted on 9/14/22 at 11:28 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:And how do the officers determine if the guy who said he smoked something is sober?
If he's sober at the end, then what threat is he?
quote:Oh shite, you left a drugged up person having a mental issue after crashing his car, and he went on to kill himself or worse, others. Now what?
Oh shite you missed out on an arrest for a hypothetical threat who didn't harm anyone. What will this do to society?
Posted on 9/14/22 at 11:28 am to Steadyhands
quote:
The poor training in this situation was the training the kid had with how to interact with police.
The kid wasn't American.
Posted on 9/14/22 at 11:29 am to crazy4lsu
quote:THAT is the better question we should be asking.
But do these cops have any training in dealing with mental health episodes? They can recognize one, supposedly, but have no protocol other than to respond with deadly force?
I have no idea what the answer is to that. Is there someone on duty trained for that that they could have called? Is that a normal policy?
I have no idea.
Posted on 9/14/22 at 11:29 am to shel311
quote:
Oh shite, you left a drugged up person having a mental issue after crashing his car, and he went on to kill himself or worse, others.
Again, their only option is to use deadly force then?
Posted on 9/14/22 at 11:30 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:Why is that the question?
That's the question
quote:Crashed his car, admitted to smoking something, having mental episode...and your assessment is to just leave him there?
they could have left earlier after an initial check
This post was edited on 9/14/22 at 11:31 am
Posted on 9/14/22 at 11:30 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
What documented statement/evidence is there about this?
He admits to smoking something on the video. He's very clearly impaired and/or mentally unstable in the video as well.
I suspect what happened was whoever the supervisor is talking to was not one of the first on the scene and didn't know that he admitted to smoking.
This post was edited on 9/14/22 at 11:31 am
Posted on 9/14/22 at 11:30 am to mmcgrath
quote:
He called 911. That shouldn't be considered a call for cops. Maybe we should enable dispatchers to call tow trucks.
We learned when we were children that calling 911 is used for emergency circumstances, not as a directory service.
Posted on 9/14/22 at 11:30 am to Street Hawk
quote:
Deputies said they didn’t want him to throw the weapons out of the car and instead demanded that he get out of the car.
Did they think he was going to execute a Rambo knife throw and hurt someone? It would have been to simple to just move from that side of the car and let him throw them out but then 20 cops wouldn't have had a reason to show up.
Posted on 9/14/22 at 11:32 am to crazy4lsu
quote:
Again, their only option is to use deadly force then?
No, but that's not what we're discussing. I think most people agree that they could have gone about removing him from the vehicle better. Some are arguing that it was not necessary to remove him from the vehicle at all.
Posted on 9/14/22 at 11:33 am to 777Tiger
quote:Pretty sure when they first arrived and asked him to get out of the car, they wanted him to get out of the car.
and provoked the guy into getting the outcome that they wanted
Posted on 9/14/22 at 11:33 am to UpToPar
Should not have called 911, cops can't leave a distressed dude in this condition once they arrive.. They were over zealous in their approach though, which is why cops are a bad fit for mental caes.
This post was edited on 9/14/22 at 11:34 am
Posted on 9/14/22 at 11:36 am to UpToPar
quote:
He admits to smoking something on the video. He's very clearly impaired and/or mentally unstable in the video as well.
But did any of the LEOs make this their stated concern?
I know this is a meme that's developed within this thread the past few pages to defend the LEOs, but did any of the actual LEOs make this argument in real time?
Posted on 9/14/22 at 11:36 am to shel311
quote:
THAT is the better question we should be asking.
The problem is that violence often exacerbates the mental health episode, which might make the patient more erratic. Most places won’t even try crisis response teams (which the right loves to mock) or some type of cross-training system like the one used in Sunnyvale, CA. You are asking cops to be the first line responders for everything and funding them in such a way, but not every response is the same sort of thing.
Posted on 9/14/22 at 11:36 am to AUstar
quote:Out of curiousity, wherever he is from, do cops never ask someone to step out of their vehicle?
The kid wasn't American.
If they do ask kids to step out of the vehicle in that country, what are kids trained to do in that country?
I don't see how not being American is any factor here. He understood English when he was asked to get out of the vehicle. HE was having some sort of mental episode, seems rather obvious.
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