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re: Colorado deputies shoot and kill man who asked for help after car crash
Posted on 9/14/22 at 11:14 am to Steadyhands
Posted on 9/14/22 at 11:14 am to Steadyhands
quote:
If he went up to someone's house rather than called police, and was acting like that, plus knowing he wrecked his car...if it was my house, I would have called the police and reported an impaired driver.
If he's wandering around with knives in his hand outside of his car, it's a completely different situation (although one that could be de-escalated). The fact is, he was in his car and no threat to anyone. Literally 0.0 level threat.
The standard justification for deadly force is fear of serious bodily injury/death. What reasonable person in the place of LEO had a reasonable belief of serious bodily injury/death during that situation?
3
Posted on 9/14/22 at 11:15 am to BuckyCheese
quote:So how long does that go for?
Tell me why they do.
Honest question, if he simply refuses to get out of the car, how long should the cops wait it out?
What if he's on a road trip and has a shite ton of snacks and water, should the cops just sit there and wait for 10 days?
Given he had weapons and was clearly having some kind of mental episode, you can't logically argue they should have just left him there, also since he was supposedly stuck or something.
This post was edited on 9/14/22 at 11:16 am
Posted on 9/14/22 at 11:15 am to UpToPar
quote:
but can you agree that at this point they have no option but to get him out of the car at some point?
Nope. Could have just waited. Called in help to assess his psychological state. No reason for a gun to be drawn or voice raised.
If they are so gung ho on doing some sort of FSTs, they can wait until the situation is more calm. Why did they have to do it right then? Why did this situation require more than 1-2 LEO?
Posted on 9/14/22 at 11:15 am to Yellerhammer5
the big issue for cops, is if they don't check his ID and sobriety/mental health and he goes off and does something, they'll get blamed for that too.
Its just risk averseness on steroids caused in part by the over litigious society and Karenism.
Its just risk averseness on steroids caused in part by the over litigious society and Karenism.
Posted on 9/14/22 at 11:16 am to Street Hawk
Why did he call the cops and say he has knives?
Call a wrecker you idiot.
Call a wrecker you idiot.
Posted on 9/14/22 at 11:16 am to shel311
quote:
What if he's on a road trip and has a shite ton of snacks and water, should the cops just sit there and wait for 10 days?
After a couple of hours even this new "intoxicated" meme would not have any real concern
Posted on 9/14/22 at 11:17 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Nope. Could have just waited.
So if I'm stopped for suspected DUI, I can sit in my car with a knife in my lap until I sober up ignoring all commands to get out? Do you see the issue with this?
Posted on 9/14/22 at 11:17 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
The standard justification for deadly force is fear of serious bodily injury/death. What reasonable person in the place of LEO had a reasonable belief of serious bodily injury/death during that situation?
Only the bootlickers.
*They had zero fear. They didn't like the fact he didn't follow their commands so execution by cop was warranted.
Posted on 9/14/22 at 11:17 am to Mouth
quote:
Call a wrecker you idiot.
He didn't because he was scared. Which is bizarre in its own right.
He wanted to be rescued for some reason.
Posted on 9/14/22 at 11:17 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:Leave a guy with weapons pretty clearly having a mental episode who is supposedly stuck and can't move?
I don't even think the LEO had to engage him at all and could have just left.
And if the cops do that, and he gets out of the car with his knives and does end up stabbing someone, you know darn well the cops would be absolutely roasted and held responsible.
Posted on 9/14/22 at 11:18 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
he's wandering around with knives in his hand outside of his car, it's a completely different situation (although one that could be de-escalated). The fact is, he was in his car and no threat to anyone. Literally 0.0 level threat.
The standard justification for deadly force is fear of serious bodily injury/death. What reasonable person in the place of LEO had a reasonable belief of serious bodily injury/death during that situation?
They didn't, but they can't also leave the scene with a clearly impaired individual. Further, the individual can't remain behind the wheel. If they just leave, he manages to get unstuck, and then kills someone in another accident, that would fall on the hands of the police.
Posted on 9/14/22 at 11:18 am to Mouth
quote:
Why did he call the cops
Is that common in New Zealand or the UK? Honest question, maybe that's what they do there.
quote:
and say he has knives
So that they don't roll in and blow him away for thinking he was going to attack them, oh wait.
Posted on 9/14/22 at 11:18 am to shel311
quote:
Leave a guy with weapons pretty clearly having a mental episode who is supposedly stuck and can't move?
Is this England?
Posted on 9/14/22 at 11:19 am to Smoke7024
quote:He was allegedly stuck, he couldn't leave on his own. He called for help.
Why? Had he done anything wrong?
He was clearly having a mental episode, tell me what would happen if that same scenario played out but the cops just flat out left the kid having an episode and he hurt someone or himself? How would people be reacting to the cops in that situation?
quote:Right, they told him to get out of the vehicle to remove himself from the weapons, which is logical as you don't want him to put his hands on the weapon.
Don't forget they told him not to throw his knives out the window also.
Posted on 9/14/22 at 11:19 am to UpToPar
quote:
So if I'm stopped for suspected DUI, I can sit in my car with a knife in my lap until I sober up ignoring all commands to get out? Do you see the issue with this?
Only people pushing the police state talking points have a problem with that.
If he's sober at the end, then what threat is he?
Oh shite you missed out on an arrest for a hypothetical threat who didn't harm anyone. What will this do to society?
Posted on 9/14/22 at 11:19 am to Oates Mustache
quote:
Why did he call the cops
Is that common in New Zealand or the UK? Honest question, maybe that's what they do there.
I don't see calling the cops if you're stuck in the ditch odd at all. It's not like the guy has Heavy D's towing on speed dial.
Posted on 9/14/22 at 11:19 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
so what are you doing there
What are the cops doing there? The dude called them, didn't he?
Posted on 9/14/22 at 11:20 am to UpToPar
quote:
So if I'm stopped for suspected DUI, I can sit in my car with a knife in my lap until I sober up ignoring all commands to get out?
No, but that's not what happened here. He called the police for help. Even if they suspected that he was impaired, they still have time to properly assess that.
This guy's life > DUI charge
Posted on 9/14/22 at 11:20 am to shel311
quote:
Leave a guy with weapons pretty clearly having a mental episode who is supposedly stuck and can't move?
But do these cops have any training in dealing with mental health episodes? They can recognize one, supposedly, but have no protocol other than to respond with deadly force?
Posted on 9/14/22 at 11:20 am to DisplacedBuckeye
quote:
What are the cops doing there?
That's the question
quote:
The dude called them, didn't he?
yes but (1) they could have left earlier after an initial check and (2) at that point, which is what the state police supervisor was pointing out, there didn't seem to be a justification for them to remain
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