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Message
re: Bizarre new ICD-10 codes
Posted on 10/16/15 at 11:39 pm to SmackoverHawg
Posted on 10/16/15 at 11:39 pm to SmackoverHawg
At the industry level it does not appear as bad as the switch from 4010 to 5010, the format for claims.
I see some issues with Anthem payers and erroneous rejects.
We will know more when the remits come in a week or two.
I see some issues with Anthem payers and erroneous rejects.
We will know more when the remits come in a week or two.
Posted on 10/17/15 at 12:01 am to LSUTANGERINE
It's not really the AMA in my opinion.....
We all know that Health Insurance companies have taken over health care.....
Well, the lawyers have taken over the coding. That want health care providers to capture everything through coding.
We can't just code 'fractured femur' ......now we have to code vehicle collision......patient driver or passenger......at fault? They want us to figure out every detail of an accident instead of just fix the femur.
Hell, they even want us to clarify if a person's obesity is due to bad genetics or high caloric intake!!!!!! How the hell does that help me fix a femur??????
It's a huge pain in the arse and doesn't benefit anyone but the lawyers
We all know that Health Insurance companies have taken over health care.....
Well, the lawyers have taken over the coding. That want health care providers to capture everything through coding.
We can't just code 'fractured femur' ......now we have to code vehicle collision......patient driver or passenger......at fault? They want us to figure out every detail of an accident instead of just fix the femur.
Hell, they even want us to clarify if a person's obesity is due to bad genetics or high caloric intake!!!!!! How the hell does that help me fix a femur??????
It's a huge pain in the arse and doesn't benefit anyone but the lawyers
Posted on 10/17/15 at 12:06 am to LSUTANGERINE
We made the transmission without difficulties. Our software converts the old icd9s into the icd10s and the tracer claims have been accepted and paid.
The "big deal" was really all about upgrading systems across the nation. This costs around $20k per Doctor. So a clinic with 5 doctors had to boot out $100k for the software.
The "big deal" was really all about upgrading systems across the nation. This costs around $20k per Doctor. So a clinic with 5 doctors had to boot out $100k for the software.
Posted on 10/17/15 at 12:08 am to SamuelClemens
The US has only had since the 90s to prepare for ICD 10
Posted on 10/17/15 at 12:09 am to WAR TIGER
quote:
It's not really the AMA in my opinion.....
We all know that Health Insurance companies have taken over health care.....
Well, the lawyers have taken over the coding. That want health care providers to capture everything through coding.
We can't just code 'fractured femur' ......now we have to code vehicle collision......patient driver or passenger......at fault? They want us to figure out every detail of an accident instead of just fix the femur.
Hell, they even want us to clarify if a person's obesity is due to bad genetics or high caloric intake!!!!!! How the hell does that help me fix a femur??????
It's a huge pain in the arse and doesn't benefit anyone but the lawyers
Hyperbole. If you take history using the OPPPcQRSTMDSHITDSOS format you get all those answers. And if you hire college educated employees and not teen moms who went to a 6 week "med-tech" class, then you have employees who can read and actually act professional and give a shite.
Posted on 10/17/15 at 12:13 am to sbr2
quote:
The US has only had since the 90s to prepare for ICD 10
Exactly. It isn't s big deal, it's just new codes and the website Icd9data.com converts them easily.
The "delay" was in practices all over the nation not wanting to spend the arm and a leg required to upgrade the software and hardware needed.
And these EHR/EMR/ERx billing software companies popped up over night by the thousands and price gouged the providers.
An investigation into the software racket need to be conducted.
This post was edited on 10/17/15 at 12:16 am
Posted on 10/17/15 at 12:16 am to SamuelClemens
quote:
So a clinic with 5 doctors had to boot out $100k for the software
Sweet. Can't wait for my next bill.
Posted on 10/17/15 at 12:18 am to SamuelClemens
We have the Affordable Care Act. How could anything be going wrong in our health care system.
Stop complaining and send Obama a thank you card.
Stop complaining and send Obama a thank you card.
Posted on 10/17/15 at 12:18 am to jennBN
ICD10 has been in the works for about ten years now...if not longer.
Its implementation was supposed to coincide the roll out of electronic health records. However, EHR is just now beginning to not be so shitty. There are a lot of moving parts that depend on the software, system support staff, training and bandwidth.
The ability for a doctor to code as he works is a boon for the insurance companies and the government. All of these new coding techniques will come in handy for the death panels that are right around the corner.
Information is power, right?
Its implementation was supposed to coincide the roll out of electronic health records. However, EHR is just now beginning to not be so shitty. There are a lot of moving parts that depend on the software, system support staff, training and bandwidth.
The ability for a doctor to code as he works is a boon for the insurance companies and the government. All of these new coding techniques will come in handy for the death panels that are right around the corner.
Information is power, right?
Posted on 10/17/15 at 12:27 am to LSUTANGERINE
I have developed a new term to describe this new type of governmental harassment, "Bureaucratic self gratification ".
Posted on 10/17/15 at 12:28 am to snoozer
quote:
Information is power, right?
Well it's clear via the insane amounts of records requests targeting the "health management" information. The insurance companies and government are more concerned with lifestyle factors and less concerned with the chief complaint assessment and plan.
They want to know more about you and your private life and less about why you came in and how you were treated.
They want to know more about: your diet (do you eat fast foods etc), exercise yes no what types how often etc, mental state, use of tobacco current and former and any tobacco exposure, alcohol, illicit drugs, caffeine, sexual habits, do you own firearms and do you keep them locked up inside your home and do you keep the ammunition separate, do you get wellness screenings, do you get immunizations, are you taking aspirin and calcium and vitamin d, how well and much do you sleep, marital status current and former, etc etc etc
And they are giving bonuses to the providers for providing as much of this information as possible. The more they get the more they give in bonuses. And they are now ranking the providers on the "quality of care". And this ranking is not based on how good the providers are, it's based on how much information hey gather and report.
Posted on 10/17/15 at 12:31 am to SamuelClemens
quote:
And they are giving bonuses to the providers for providing as much of this information as possible. The more they get the more they give in bonuses. And they are now ranking the providers on the "quality of care". And this ranking is not based on how good the providers are, it's based on how much information hey gather and report.
Bingo. All about data gathering. People will regret not fighting this bullshite. Oh well, too late now.
Posted on 10/17/15 at 12:34 am to SmackoverHawg
quote:
Bingo. All about data gathering. People will regret not fighting this bull shite. Oh well, too late now
And you can bet they are working with your bank(s) to gather all your spending history
Posted on 10/17/15 at 12:36 am to SamuelClemens
What do you think their end game is?
Posted on 10/17/15 at 12:38 am to SmackoverHawg
I'm an IT guy.
It's not so bad for me. But, I do see the suffering every day.
It's not so bad for me. But, I do see the suffering every day.
Posted on 10/17/15 at 12:49 am to SamuelClemens
All of this comes down to reimbursement for service.
I service clinics in rural areas and they are close to 100% Medicare/Medicaid.
Those doctors have to do huge volume to make up for the lack of paying customers. Hence, quality is subject.
I dunno, there is no such thing as free. AMA will not work and I know the insurance companies aren't working for anyone but the stockholders. Bad situation for anyone other than them.
I service clinics in rural areas and they are close to 100% Medicare/Medicaid.
Those doctors have to do huge volume to make up for the lack of paying customers. Hence, quality is subject.
I dunno, there is no such thing as free. AMA will not work and I know the insurance companies aren't working for anyone but the stockholders. Bad situation for anyone other than them.
Posted on 10/17/15 at 5:17 am to LSUTANGERINE
If ICD-10 was finished in 1992, why are they just now implementing it?
Posted on 10/17/15 at 5:52 am to SamuelClemens
quote:Then either you don't know enough about it, or don't understand the ability of CMS to exact penalties based on """fraudulent""" coding. ICD-9 increased from 17,000 to over 140,000 ICD-10 codes. The US employs 68,000 of the 140K. If you're under the impression ICD-9 can simply be crosswalked to all-inclusive ICD-10 codes, and done in a carefree manner, good luck with your audits.
Exactly. It isn't s big deal
To put ICD-10 in perspective, here's some of the information regarding coding of a Bee Sting:
quote:
The following is a list of choices for bee sting diagnosis codes, along with discussion of correct application:
ICD-10CM Code Description
T63.44-- Toxic effect of venom of bees, accidental
T63.45-- Toxic effect of venom of hornets, accidental
T63.46-- Toxic effect of venom of wasps, accidental
Z91.030 Bee allergy status
Z91.038 Other insect allergy status
Options
1 accidental (unintentional) A Initial (active tx)
2 intentional, self-harm D Subsequent
3 assault S Sequela
4 undetermined
With the expansion of the ICD-10CM codes for bee venom patients, as well as changes to the terminology of the codes, a clear understanding of the terminology is necessary to make the appropriate selection for the patient’s encounter.
Toxic effect is defined in the ICD-10CM book as “any harmful substance which is either ingested or comes in contact with a person.” The bee sting is considered a toxic effect for the patient.
The Z codes assigned for bee venom patients are considered status codes, but are also listed in the alphabetic section as personal history codes. The status definition indicates a patient is either a carrier of a disease or has the sequela or residual of a past disease or condition.
It will also be necessary to assign a course of treatment character to the T category codes to indicate the status of the patient. This is defined with a 7th character. The 7th character is required to have a complete code. The 7th character options are “A, D and S”.
The definition of “A” was clarified in 2015. The 7th character “A” initial encounter is used while the patient is receiving active treatment for the condition. Examples of active treatment are emergency department encounters, and evaluation and continuing treatment by the same or a different physician. While the patient may be seen by a new or different provider over the course of treatment for an injury or other disease, assignment of the 7th character is based on whether the patient is undergoing active treatment and not whether the provider is seeing the patient for the first-time.
The 7th character “D’ for subsequent encounter is used for encounters after the patient has received active treatment of the condition, and is receiving routine care for the condition during the healing or recovery phase. Examples of subsequent care are medication adjustments, or other aftercare and follow-up visits, following treatment of the condition.
The 7th character “S” Sequela is for use for complications or conditions that arise as a direct result of a condition such as a scar, or urticaria, caused by the bee sting. When using the 7th character “S,” it is necessary to use both the toxic effect code that precipitated the sequela and the code for the sequela itself.
Case Scenario:
If a patient presents with a history of reactions to bee/wasp/hornets stings and is not skin tested, should the visit be coded using the toxic effect codes (T63….) or an allergy status code (Z91.030) Bee allergy status, or Z91.038 – Other insect allergy status?
Response:
If there is active treatment for the patient, and the patient is seeking treatment for a recent encounter with a “bee”, the correct diagnosis code would be T63……… If the patient is giving historical information based on past encounters and the patient is not seeking active treatment, the appropriate code would be the Z91.030 – Bee allergy status.
Case Scenario:
Assume that a patient provides a history of reaction to bee/wasp/hornets stings, is skin tested and skin testing is negative. What would be the appropriate ICD-10 code to choose?
Response:
If the patient had not been recently stung and has not been actively treated by a provider, the appropriate code would be the Z91.030 – Bee allergy status. The diagnosis code Z01.82 for allergy testing is to be used when there is no sign, symptom, or complaint to use to support the testing.
Case Scenario
A patient presents with history of reactions to bee/wasp/hornet stings and is skin tested. The testing is positive. A T code is assigned, but what would be the appropriate 7th digit, A, D, S?
Response:
The appropriate 7th digit would be the A, since the patient is undergoing active workup and treatment for the diagnosis of toxic effect of bees.
Case Scenario
A patient is evaluated for bee/wasp/hornet stings, and decides to return on a different day for testing. Would the 7th character be A, D, S?
Response:
The 7th character would be A since the patient is continuing to undergo active treatment and workup for the diagnosis.
Case Scenario
A patient is seen back in consultation for adjustments on their doses while on bee immunotherapy. What 7th character would be appropriate?
Response:
In this scenario, since we are making medication adjustments and the patient is receiving routine care, the appropriate 7th character would be D for subsequent encounter. However, a provider may also select the “A” as the 7th Character since the patient is still receiving active treatment. In checking LCD’s from Medicare carriers, both diagnosis codes are listed as appropriate.
Case Scenario:
Patient is on immunotherapy for venom desensitization, what would be appropriate 7th character?
Response:
The appropriate 7th character for this patient would be “D,” since the patient is on routine care for the toxic effect to bees. The patient is still receiving active treatment and an argument for the use of the “A” may also be made. Guidance from the ICD-10CM committee needs to be given for further clarification.
Posted on 10/17/15 at 6:39 am to LSUTANGERINE
V91.07XA – Burn due to water-skis on fire, initial encounter
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