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Started By
Message
re: Baltimore removes statues under cover of darkness
Posted on 8/16/17 at 10:07 am to crap4brain
Posted on 8/16/17 at 10:07 am to crap4brain
Probably did it for a fraction of the cost as New Orleans too
1
Posted on 8/16/17 at 10:08 am to GetCocky11
The state voted to stay in the Union, but there was a huge vocal pro secession movement in the state. Lincoln sent troops to occupy the state and suspended Habeas Corpus to deal with the leaders of confederate movement. They ended up arresting the pro secession Mayor of Baltimore and Police Chief who wanted to burn the railroads and rail cars so Union troops couldn't be transported through the state.
Posted on 8/16/17 at 10:08 am to GetCocky11
quote:
little surprising that a Lee and Jackson statue
Two men villainized for their association with the CSA due to love for their home. Two men who when viewed in their time were very much progressive in terms of their views toward civil liberties. Lee received slaves in inheritance and abruptly granted them their freedom. Jackson received six as a wedding present and is still loved today by their descendants because he personally taught them to read and write and preached to them, even though it was against the law.
The institution of slavery and systematic racism that grew from it is absolutely despicable. While I understand it may be too much to ask, it would be nice if we viewed these men in context and didn't immediately vilify them as a whole. Without men like Lee and Jackson the row to hoe from the 19th century to 21st would have been much greater. Yes they were on the wrong side of the war, but it was due to love of home not saving a despicable institution. Those two are more deserving a statue than Sherman and Grant, but I am sure those protesting the statues wouldn't agree.
Posted on 8/16/17 at 10:09 am to Collegedropout
A northern town that is 63% black doesn't want statues of Confederate leaders, why would any one here care about what they want their city to represent?
Americans have long pulled statues of foreign idols
Americans have long pulled statues of foreign idols
Posted on 8/16/17 at 10:10 am to AwesomeSauce
quote:
Those two are more deserving a statue than Sherman and Grant,
Grant was a slave owner but he gets a pass because he wore blue.
Posted on 8/16/17 at 10:17 am to crap4brain
I read this as "Baltimore Removes Statues under the cover of Dankness".
As if their twitter was posting lots of Pepe Memes until there was no more Statues.
As if their twitter was posting lots of Pepe Memes until there was no more Statues.
Posted on 8/16/17 at 10:17 am to Rebel
quote:
Grant was a slave owner
So was Sherman and many other prominent men of the North during that time.
quote:
he gets a pass because he wore blue.
As did Lee where he is still regarded as one of the brightest and greatest strategists to ever come out of West Point.
Posted on 8/16/17 at 10:31 am to crap4brain
I wonder how all the snowflakes and dindu-nuffins offended by these Civil War Confederate Statues will feel about the Statues that replace them after the Next Civil War. Those who refuse to learn from or acknowledge history are certainly doomed to repeat it!
Posted on 8/16/17 at 10:39 am to crap4brain
Thats funny. No masks??
Posted on 8/16/17 at 10:47 am to AwesomeSauce
quote:
Two men villainized for their association with the CSA due to love for their home. Two men who when viewed in their time were very much progressive in terms of their views toward civil liberties. Lee received slaves in inheritance and abruptly granted them their freedom. Jackson received six as a wedding present and is still loved today by their descendants because he personally taught them to read and write and preached to them, even though it was against the law. The institution of slavery and systematic racism that grew from it is absolutely despicable. While I understand it may be too much to ask, it would be nice if we viewed these men in context and didn't immediately vilify them as a whole. Without men like Lee and Jackson the row to hoe from the 19th century to 21st would have been much greater. Yes they were on the wrong side of the war, but it was due to love of home not saving a despicable institution. Those two are more deserving a statue than Sherman and Grant, but I am sure those protesting the statues wouldn't agree.
Very well said.
Most people today don't understand the differences in the loyalties of the 19th century and today. Many saw themselves as "Virginians" first (or whatever home state) and "Americans" second. It's why the issue of State's Rights was such a battle back then. But it also explains why men pick up arms to fight fr their home state, much like Lee and Jackson did.
On a personal note, my Great Grandfather served in the Missouri 5th Cav for the CSA as a young boy. My family history is difficult to trace past him because our ancestors didn't trust the federal government and refused to respond to any government census.
Posted on 8/16/17 at 10:50 am to crap4brain
frick the confederacy 
Posted on 8/16/17 at 10:52 am to RatLTrap
quote:
Probably did it for a fraction of the cost as New Orleans too
They did not have an open process like NOLA so Neo Confederate knuckleheads couldn't threaten the lives of Cops, First responders or contractors.
I called Baltimore months ago .
Posted on 8/16/17 at 10:53 am to tigerinthebayou
quote:
The statue has been there for 100 years and it's going to be there for another 100.
Except it's not, it's gone
Posted on 8/16/17 at 10:57 am to AwesomeSauce
It's ashame that Lee's legacy is going down like this. He fought for his State, not the idea of slavery. The fact that he was one of the greatest generals ever is just being washed away.
At least New Orleans gets to keep Andrew Jackson's statue... Well at least until the sjw's find it cool to defend Native Americans. Then I'm sure his will get torn down for the trail of tears.
At least New Orleans gets to keep Andrew Jackson's statue... Well at least until the sjw's find it cool to defend Native Americans. Then I'm sure his will get torn down for the trail of tears.
This post was edited on 8/16/17 at 10:58 am
Posted on 8/16/17 at 11:13 am to AwesomeSauce
quote:
Lee received slaves in inheritance and abruptly granted them their freedom.
By the terms of the will, he was required to free them within 5 years and waited exactly 5 years to do so. He even went to court to confirm his right to wait those 5 years.
Lee was a great general and served the US Army proudly and honorably before the confederacy. His views on slavery and secession may not be entirely crystal clear, but let's not pretend he was an abolitionist.
Posted on 8/16/17 at 11:19 am to Black n Gold
How many Confederate statues are there? These states must have spent a small fortune erecting all of these.
4 Confederate monuments in Baltimore versus 1 Union monument. Loser complex much?
Despite not being a CSA territory & most Marylanders volunteering/serving for the Union(67,000) versus the CSA (22,000).
Baltimore was a Segregationist city showing solidarity with the White Supremists policies of their Southern brethen. These monuments going up as late as the 1950's had little to do with 'preserving history' in Baltimore.
4 Confederate monuments in Baltimore versus 1 Union monument. Loser complex much?
Despite not being a CSA territory & most Marylanders volunteering/serving for the Union(67,000) versus the CSA (22,000).
Baltimore was a Segregationist city showing solidarity with the White Supremists policies of their Southern brethen. These monuments going up as late as the 1950's had little to do with 'preserving history' in Baltimore.
Posted on 8/16/17 at 11:25 am to Bayou_Tiger_225
quote:
He fought for his State, not the idea of slavery.
I read Playboy for the articles.
Posted on 8/16/17 at 11:32 am to TbirdSpur2010
quote:
frick the confederacy
What an intelligent, well thought out response. Thanks for confirming what I already suspected about those that support monument removal.
Posted on 8/16/17 at 11:54 am to Speedy G
Honestly my opinion on Lee is in large part due to what I had assumed to be a comprehensive biography by Douglas Freeman. Looking into your post I see that a Pryor has a biography that appears to quell a lot of the sentiment of the kind gentle Lee presented by Freeman. Looks like I've found some night and weekend reading to catch up on. If the excerpts from Freeman are on point then I can certainly say my long-held views on Lee will certainly evolve.
Posted on 8/16/17 at 11:57 am to TH03
quote:
Except it's not, it's gone
That's right. Because politicians cave in to the demands of activist groups who want to find anything to blame their problems and shortcomings on. Right now the in movement is the statues. Once taking the statues down doesn't fix their problems it'll be on to something else to blame.
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