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re: Anyone have an actual good alternative to the economic system we have created?
Posted on 6/21/18 at 12:37 pm to tigerdude3232
Posted on 6/21/18 at 12:37 pm to tigerdude3232
quote:
The flaw in your entire argument is that you assume humans make the economically wisest and most moral decisions
I make no such assumptions. In fact, just the opposite.
I do, however, posit the idea that those who do so will and should come out better than those who do not.
Any system that proposes to make the outcome of all decision be equal is flawed. It would also require that someone(s) be in control of all resources so as to prevent the flow of same resources towards those who make better decisions. How do we ensure that those 'controllers' are entirely altruistic?
1
Posted on 6/21/18 at 12:38 pm to yallallcrazy
like this?
Posted on 6/21/18 at 12:47 pm to tigerdude3232
quote:
We admittedly have millions in our country who are poor.
No matter what system you make this will always happen.
quote:
We give up 40+ hours a week to someone else, creating income for them.
Create something or provide a service on your own if you don't want to work for someone else.
quote:
Some earn their wealth, while others waste the wealth earned for them.
I know plenty of people who work for a company and they are financially well off. The truth is most poors stay poor because they have no financial discipline.
quote:
What type of system would be a more fair society?
We have a fair society. I have a cousin who is a multi millionaire that has a GED. He worked his arse and learned a skill and then started his own business.
quote:
Do we even want a more fair society?
Again we have a fair society and because someone is not willing to put in the time for their own success than why should others who do be penalized for it?
This post was edited on 6/21/18 at 12:48 pm
Posted on 6/21/18 at 12:53 pm to tigerdude3232
Yep!
Exactly
Let's flip this around. I reading your posts, would it be correct to assume you are curious as to whether there is a system that allows you (meaning any individual) to work less but still get similar benefits to what you now have? Is that the bottom line? I'm still a little unclear as to what a 'better' system means to you.
Exactly
Let's flip this around. I reading your posts, would it be correct to assume you are curious as to whether there is a system that allows you (meaning any individual) to work less but still get similar benefits to what you now have? Is that the bottom line? I'm still a little unclear as to what a 'better' system means to you.
Posted on 6/21/18 at 1:00 pm to stelly1025
quote:
quote:
We admittedly have millions in our country who are poor.
No matter what system you make this will always happen.
quote:
We give up 40+ hours a week to someone else, creating income for them.
Create something or provide a service on your own if you don't want to work for someone else.
quote:
Some earn their wealth, while others waste the wealth earned for them.
I know plenty of people who work for a company and they are financially well off. The truth is most poors stay poor because they have no financial discipline.
quote:
What type of system would be a more fair society?
We have a fair society. I have a cousin who is a multi millionaire that has a GED. He worked his arse and learned a skill and then started his own business.
quote:
Do we even want a more fair society?
Again we have a fair society and because someone is not willing to put in the time for their own success than why should others who do be penalized for it?
I can see you are very small picture minded huh? I too know many well off people, its not that great of an accomplishment. And congrats on having a rich cousin with a GED, happens all the time. Who said penalize you at all and who said money is success?
Posted on 6/21/18 at 1:02 pm to yallallcrazy
quote:
Yep!
Exactly
Let's flip this around. I reading your posts, would it be correct to assume you are curious as to whether there is a system that allows you (meaning any individual) to work less but still get similar benefits to what you now have? Is that the bottom line? I'm still a little unclear as to what a 'better' system means to you.
I guess basically but Really I'd like a system that appreciates, depreciates over time
Posted on 6/21/18 at 1:08 pm to tigerdude3232
quote:
How if you work 70 hours a week to pay for a place to sleep, food, transportation, etc.
There will always be those that make poor decisions in life that make it difficult to change, but it is rarely impossible. Fortunately in America those in such a situation are small in number, should we scrap an entire economic system that provides the highest standard of living to the most people in order to help a small number of people that made poor choices in life? Our economic system also makes it possible to have the many social programs that are available to help the less fortunate. Being poor in America still means having a higher standard of living than 90% of the world's population, having once lived in Kenya I have seen what real poverty combined with no government assistance programs looks like.
Posted on 6/21/18 at 1:12 pm to tigerdude3232
quote:
a system that appreciates, depreciates over time
What does this mean to you?
Posted on 6/21/18 at 1:15 pm to tigerdude3232
quote:
I can see you are very small picture minded huh? I too know many well off people, its not that great of an accomplishment. And congrats on having a rich cousin with a GED, happens all the time. Who said penalize you at all and who said money is success?
You are the one asking for a "better system". Economically we have a better system than anywhere else I have been to and lived. You reference poor people in society. There is no system that you can create that will magically bring the poor out of poverty. It seems your are advocating for a socialist approach which again penalizes the people who are sucessful at the expense of poor people.
Posted on 6/21/18 at 1:18 pm to tigerdude3232
For starters we could actually be a free market capitalist country.
We haven't been that since the Great Depression.
In a perfect world you'd have free, unregulated markets where the people govern themselves and the market takes care of unethical business practices through the consumer being informed and refusing to support a model they don't like. The government would only intervene on occasions to solve individual civil disputes, and a small tax would provide a small safety net to those who were truly in need such as disabled, mentally challenged, elderly, etc. The system would be carefully implemented to avoid abuse.
Unfortunately this world does not exist
We haven't been that since the Great Depression.
In a perfect world you'd have free, unregulated markets where the people govern themselves and the market takes care of unethical business practices through the consumer being informed and refusing to support a model they don't like. The government would only intervene on occasions to solve individual civil disputes, and a small tax would provide a small safety net to those who were truly in need such as disabled, mentally challenged, elderly, etc. The system would be carefully implemented to avoid abuse.
Unfortunately this world does not exist
Posted on 6/21/18 at 1:29 pm to tigerdude3232
quote:
What type of system would be a more fair society?
Fairer? None. More equal outcome? Socialism because it equals Communism, where everyone starves equally.
Posted on 6/21/18 at 1:29 pm to tigerdude3232
No system has lifted more people out of poverty, done a better job raising the overall standard of living for all people, and led to more technological/medical innovations than capitalism.
Anyone who tells you different is either delusional or a liar.
Anyone who tells you different is either delusional or a liar.
Posted on 6/21/18 at 1:29 pm to stelly1025
quote:
quote:
I can see you are very small picture minded huh? I too know many well off people, its not that great of an accomplishment. And congrats on having a rich cousin with a GED, happens all the time. Who said penalize you at all and who said money is success?
You are the one asking for a "better system". Economically we have a better system than anywhere else I have been to and lived. You reference poor people in society. There is no system that you can create that will magically bring the poor out of poverty. It seems your are advocating for a socialist approach which again penalizes the people who are sucessful at the expense of poor people.
It only penalizes you if you money if everything and the common goal among us. It doesn't have to be this way. Is wealth even needed?
Posted on 6/21/18 at 1:32 pm to yallallcrazy
quote:
quote:
a system that appreciates, depreciates over time
What does this mean to you?
nothing when I leave out words.
A system the appreciates over time and does not depreciate. We are building a society that attributed wealth with advancement. We can advance without wealth existing, assuming everyone could except that having more means nothing.
Posted on 6/21/18 at 1:33 pm to deltaland
quote:
For starters we could actually be a free market capitalist country.
We haven't been that since the Great Depression.
In a perfect world you'd have free, unregulated markets where the people govern themselves and the market takes care of unethical business practices through the consumer being informed and refusing to support a model they don't like. The government would only intervene on occasions to solve individual civil disputes, and a small tax would provide a small safety net to those who were truly in need such as disabled, mentally challenged, elderly, etc. The system would be carefully implemented to avoid abuse.
Unfortunately this world does not exist
Isn't this just a stripped back version of what we have? Why can't I pay for retarded aunt betty?
Posted on 6/21/18 at 1:36 pm to tigerdude3232
“Until and unless you discover that money is the root of all good, you ask for your own destruction. When money ceases to become the means by which men deal with one another, then men become the tools of other men. Blood, whips and guns--or dollars. Take your choice--there is no other.”
Ayn Rand
Ayn Rand
Posted on 6/21/18 at 1:36 pm to Barbellthor
quote:
quote:
What type of system would be a more fair society?
Fairer? None. More equal outcome? Socialism because it equals Communism, where everyone starves equally.
So what aspect of capitalism prevents everyone from starving? What is the major difference in the two systems to you? Even communism has money and wealth, which I think is the issue. Wealth is the last thing mankind is holding on to that lets us feel better than others. Think about it
Posted on 6/21/18 at 1:38 pm to Blob Fish
quote:
No system has lifted more people out of poverty, done a better job raising the overall standard of living for all people, and led to more technological/medical innovations than capitalism.
Anyone who tells you different is either delusional or a liar.
Newwwwwww system....Like new as in hasn't existed in recorded history
Posted on 6/21/18 at 1:39 pm to Blob Fish
quote:
“Until and unless you discover that money is the root of all good, you ask for your own destruction. When money ceases to become the means by which men deal with one another, then men become the tools of other men. Blood, whips and guns--or dollars. Take your choice--there is no other.”
Ayn Rand
So we are all inherently evil and are incapable of being good to each other?
Posted on 6/21/18 at 1:43 pm to tigerdude3232
quote:
So we are all inherently evil and are incapable of being good to each other
Nah. We are all inherently selfish. We are chiefly motivated by our own survival and our own well-being. To ignore that human nature is to ignore reality. Instead, that nature must be harnessed and re-directed to do public good.
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