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re: Annuity or Lump? Updated for 1.6 Billion

Posted on 10/19/18 at 10:55 am to
Posted by Thib-a-doe Tiger
Member since Nov 2012
36799 posts
Posted on 10/19/18 at 10:55 am to
quote:

Stokes and Hubbell in New Orleans is who I'm calling first.



Bruh, dafuq?
Posted by ell_13
Member since Apr 2013
88412 posts
Posted on 10/19/18 at 10:58 am to
Posted by deltaland
Member since Mar 2011
103819 posts
Posted on 10/19/18 at 11:02 am to
Lump. Not guaranteed to live 30 more years even though I’m young and I don’t believe you can pass the payments on to your spouse/kids.

So lump is a safer bet
Posted by deltaland
Member since Mar 2011
103819 posts
Posted on 10/19/18 at 11:04 am to
quote:

a winner dies before receiving all annual payments, Mega Millions will continue to pay the annual payments, as scheduled, to the winner's designated beneficiary or to the winner's estate.


In that case I’d take annuity.
Posted by ell_13
Member since Apr 2013
88412 posts
Posted on 10/19/18 at 11:08 am to
quote:

I don’t believe you can pass the payments on to your spouse/kids.
False.
Posted by Pintail
Member since Nov 2011
12160 posts
Posted on 10/19/18 at 11:55 am to
quote:

I did laugh when he claimed 4.5% was just slightly more than inflation over the last 20 years.


Inflation over the last 30 years is about a 2.7% average. Anyone can find something to make up the other 1.8% and then some.
Posted by Boston911
Lafayette
Member since Dec 2013
2595 posts
Posted on 10/19/18 at 11:57 am to
1. Set up the legal parts with wealth mngmt team
1A. Kill off ALL methods of identification/comms and STFU
2. Set it up in a way I cant get more than a couple mill per year
2A. Fk investments, With 300MM and spending 5MM year to include taxes, I have a good 60 years, I’m 48 now
3. Leave the country and the Mgmt team claim it (if able)
4. Hookers and coke
Posted by Richard Castle
St. George, La.
Member since Nov 2012
1912 posts
Posted on 10/19/18 at 12:01 pm to
quote:

Lump is the ONLY correct answer.
Posted by Winston Cup
Dallas Cowboys Fan
Member since May 2016
66985 posts
Posted on 10/19/18 at 12:01 pm to
all you dipshits in this thread debating this are wasting your time. you arent going to win, i am.

Posted by Displaced
Member since Dec 2011
33054 posts
Posted on 10/19/18 at 12:03 pm to
This isn't Highlander...

There can be more than 1
Posted by slackster
Houston
Member since Mar 2009
91871 posts
Posted on 10/19/18 at 12:13 pm to
quote:

I made a spreadsheet... Take 325 and randomize a yearly return between 0 and 10% for 30 years... Then take the annuity schedule that you would net based on today's taxes starting with 10.365 and randomize that between 0 and 10%... Randomized 1000 times, the lump sum ranges from 900MM to 1,800MM but averaging 1,450MM. The annuity is much more stable from 1,050MM and 1,600MM averaging 1,320MM. FWIW. ETA: About 20% of the time, the annuity is more.


So I just ran it vs actual S&P 500 total returns from 1/1/1927 to today. I ignored taxes - just used the actual gross annuity payments that increase by 5% each year from $14,600,000 to $60,000,000 by the last payment and the lump sum of $548,000,000.

I also assumed you'd withdraw $12,000,000 to spend in the first year and 3% more every year after that, but any remaining money would be saved and invested directly into the S&P 500 (ignoring fees and taxes). In either scenario you will withdraw ~$571MM over the 30 years.

In the 60 full 30-year rolling periods, the annuity payments would leave you with an average nest egg of $1.845B, a median nest egg of $1.811B, and a standard deviation of $689MM. Not too shabby whatsoever.

However, investing the lump sum and taking the same annual withdrawals would leave you with an average nest egg of $7.938B, a median nest egg of $8.179B, and a standard deviation of $4.060B.

In only 3 of the 60 annual rolling periods would the annuity have left you with a better nest egg. The lowest annuity nest egg finished at $907MM and the highest was $3.942B.

At one point your $548MM lump sum would have been down to $165MM, and the worst it ever ended was with a nest egg of $581MM. The best it ever ended was with a nest egg of $20.456B.



Posted by slackster
Houston
Member since Mar 2009
91871 posts
Posted on 10/19/18 at 12:16 pm to
quote:

2A. Fk investments, With 300MM and spending 5MM year to include taxes, I have a good 60 years, I’m 48 now


Why are you hiring a wealth management team if you're not going to invest it?

You guys can enjoy your $300MM, I'd rather be a billionaire.
Posted by Thib-a-doe Tiger
Member since Nov 2012
36799 posts
Posted on 10/19/18 at 12:19 pm to
Let me make this simple for everyone


If you have no preference in annuity vs lump sum: if you go to a financial professional and they tell you to take the annuity, fire them immediately
Posted by HeyHeyHogsAllTheWay
Member since Feb 2017
12458 posts
Posted on 10/19/18 at 12:19 pm to
quote:

This isn't Highlander...

There can be more than 1


Man that would actually make for excellent TV

Instead of one person winning $1B, 10 people win $100M each and then those people can either keep their $100M or get in the cage against the other winners who take part for a winner take all event.


Posted by Thib-a-doe Tiger
Member since Nov 2012
36799 posts
Posted on 10/19/18 at 12:21 pm to
Are we allowed a look at their knuckles before deciding?
Posted by ell_13
Member since Apr 2013
88412 posts
Posted on 10/19/18 at 12:22 pm to
I redid the numbers with the new totals and fixed the formula error I had.

If you invested every cent you took for the lump (340MM):

1.401 billion after 30 years averaging 1000 random runs. Max hit 2.2 billion

If you invested every cent you took for the annuity (10.7MM year 1):

1.320 billion after 30 years average 100 random runs.
Max hi 1.74 billion


Again, the assumptions are the current tax rates and a random 0-10% return over the 30 years.
This post was edited on 10/19/18 at 12:24 pm
Posted by Thib-a-doe Tiger
Member since Nov 2012
36799 posts
Posted on 10/19/18 at 12:23 pm to
quote:

Again, the assumptions are the current tax rates and a random 0-10% return over the 30 years.



Not accounting for negative returns makes this useless baw


You just did an extreme study of the irrelevant
This post was edited on 10/19/18 at 12:24 pm
Posted by rd280z
Richmond
Member since Jan 2007
2519 posts
Posted on 10/19/18 at 12:25 pm to
Depends on your age. If you are young, the annuity is probably smart. If you are older, like over 40, the lump sum sounds good.
Posted by ell_13
Member since Apr 2013
88412 posts
Posted on 10/19/18 at 12:27 pm to
quote:

Not accounting for negative returns makes this useless baw
Any randomized run will be useless if you don't take into account ever single factor. But the fact that I'm using the same returns for both situations, limits the deviations of my point: The annuity isn't the worst thing in the world and certainly not as bad as people make it out to be for the reasons they site. (ETA: And negative returns would impact the lump greater than the annuity since less would be personally invested and the yearly 5% increased investment is constant)

You mentioned it earlier. The real risk of the annuity is the lack trust in future taxes.
This post was edited on 10/19/18 at 12:30 pm
Posted by Thib-a-doe Tiger
Member since Nov 2012
36799 posts
Posted on 10/19/18 at 12:29 pm to
I got news for ya baw, if you think you can go broke with 300 mil all at once, you will also go broke with a billion dollar annuity
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