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Message
re: Alabama workers say Turner Industries fired them over Confederate Flag on cars
Posted on 7/22/15 at 2:01 pm to SoDakHawk
Posted on 7/22/15 at 2:01 pm to SoDakHawk
quote:I think the biggest issue was the "size" of the rebel flag. If it had been a bumper sticker I don't think anything would have ever been said....of course I am making an assumption with that statement.
I would need to check but I believe you may be right that, as an employer, I can restrict political activity from my property. Then the question becomes was there a policy currently in place? Where there other vehicles in the lot that displayed other political messages? If so, why was my client singled out and terminated?
It's one thing to have a bumper sticker on a vehicle compared to a flag which every person in the parking lot and every passerby can see.
Posted on 7/22/15 at 2:11 pm to dante
quote:
Phillip Sims tells us he doesn’t normally drive to work with the Confederate Battle Flag on his truck. But he says he was running late on Monday, and didn’t take the time to remove it.
So he knows it's not a good idea... does it because he's running late, and then gets indignant when asked to remove it? What a moron.
Posted on 7/22/15 at 3:06 pm to SoDakHawk
quote:
In fact, I am pro-America, no foreign cars are allowed on my business property. Employees are only allowed to park vehicles made by Ford, Chrysler, or GM on my lot. Now logos promoting foreign vehicles. My business, my rules.
You do realize that Toyota has the most American made vehicles right? Percentage wise, Chrysler is mostly made with Mexican parts I believe. Google bro.
Posted on 7/22/15 at 3:23 pm to knuckleballer
quote:
Says he contacted the ACLU here. No way they'll be defending HIS 1st amendment.
They've defended the rights of KKK members to free speech and the right of a homeowner to fly the Gadsden flag (Tea Party flag) in violation of his HOA agreement, so how do you know they wouldn't take this guy's case?
Posted on 7/22/15 at 3:24 pm to ForeverLSU02
I found a 2003 case about a South Carolina man fired for refusing to remove Confederate flag decals from his toolbox. In cases like these, there may be some causes of action--maybe based on state statutes-- that could make it more nuanced than saying "private business" and everyone goes home. But I want to post this excerpt on why these aren't "First Amendment cases."
Dixon v. Coburg Dairy
quote:
The act of displaying a Confederate flag is plainly within the purview of the First Amendment. "Flags, especially flags of a political sort, enjoy an honored position in the First Amendment hierarchy." American Legion Post 7 v. City of Durham, 239 F.3d 601, 607 (4th Cir.2001). Even more, Dixon chose to display the Confederate battle flag at a time when South Carolinians were vigorously debating whether that flag should fly atop their state capitol. As the Supreme Court recently affirmed, "The hallmark of the protection of free speech is to allow `free trade in ideas,'" and this protection extends "to symbolic or expressive conduct as well as to actual speech." Virginia v. Black, ___ U.S. ___, 123 S.Ct. 1536, 1547, 155 L.Ed.2d 535 (2003). Dixon's actions, taking place amidst a charged political atmosphere, exemplify the kind of speech that the First Amendment was drafted to protect.
While Dixon may have a constitutional right to fly the Confederate flag, however, that right is not unlimited. An individual may not "exercise general rights of free speech on property privately owned and used nondiscriminatorily for private purposes only." Lloyd Corp. v. Tanner, 407 U.S. 551, 567, 92 S.Ct. 2219, 33 L.Ed.2d 131 (1972) (holding that the First Amendment does not protect the actions of a protester handing out anti-war handbills at a privately owned shopping mall when that mall has a policy against all handbilling). Had Dixon attended a pro-flag rally on the grounds of the state capitol, he clearly would have satisfied the first element of a claim under § 16-17-560. Assuming that state authorities would have permitted the rally to go forward, Dixon's attendance at such an event would be an exercise of his rights under the Free Speech Clause of the First Amendment. This conduct would be precisely the kind of speech that the South Carolina legislature wished to protect. Under South Carolina law, an individual who attended this type of rally on Sunday could not be fired by his private employer the following Monday solely because his employer objected to the individual's presence at the rally.
Dixon, however, chose to display the Confederate flag on the tool box he used at his workplace. For Dixon to prevail, this Court would be required to find that the First Amendment gives him the right to move the flag rally from the capitol to the Coburg Dairy garage. Such a finding would lead to the absurd result of making every private workplace a constitutionally protected forum for political discourse. As the Supreme Court has observed, this argument "has as its major unarticulated premise the assumption that people who want to propagandize protests or views have a constitutional right to do so whenever and however and wherever they please." Adderley v. Florida, 385 U.S. 39, 47-48, 87 S.Ct. 242, 17 L.Ed.2d 149 (1967). The Court has "vigorously and forthrightly rejected" that concept of the First Amendment. Id. at 48, 87 S.Ct. 242.
Dixon v. Coburg Dairy
This post was edited on 7/22/15 at 3:28 pm
Posted on 7/22/15 at 3:32 pm to SoDakHawk
quote:
Then the question becomes was there a policy currently in place? Where there other vehicles in the lot that displayed other political messages? If so, why was my client singled out and terminated?
and if you find its race, gender, sexuality, etc... you might start getting somewhere.
Posted on 7/22/15 at 3:35 pm to ForeverLSU02
quote:
Phillip Sims
Former Alabama QB that transferred to Virginia?
Posted on 7/22/15 at 3:35 pm to Makinbacon
quote:
If the guys vehicle in question here is a co vehicle I agree.
If not and it was their private personal vehicle, F them.
So Turner should have no recourse if an employee puts a flag that says, "Turner Industries Sucks" on their personal vehicle and parks it in front of their building?
Posted on 7/22/15 at 3:39 pm to CadesCove
if you want to believe this guy was flying that flag as a symbol of southern pride, great. But let's be real here, Bubba was flying it to antagonize and/or pick a fight. He lost.
Posted on 7/22/15 at 3:45 pm to Scruffy
quote:
by Scruffy
Private company. Don't care.
Meh , the Supreme Court has already said many times that private companies must make reasonable accommodations for religion, why not speech?
Posted on 7/22/15 at 4:02 pm to BilJ
quote:
if you want to believe this guy was flying that flag as a symbol of southern pride, great. But let's be real here, Bubba was flying it to antagonize and/or pick a fight. He lost.
Pretty much this.
Posted on 7/22/15 at 4:38 pm to Konkey Dong
quote:
In fact, I am pro-America, no foreign cars are allowed on my business property. Employees are only allowed to park vehicles made by Ford, Chrysler, or GM on my lot. Now logos promoting foreign vehicles. My business, my rules.
quote:
You do realize that Toyota has the most American made vehicles right? Percentage wise, Chrysler is mostly made with Mexican parts I believe. Google bro.
Not to mention that Ford and GM both made trucks, jeeps, tanks, and planes for the German military and Henry Ford himself was a closet Nazi.
Posted on 7/22/15 at 5:13 pm to ForeverLSU02
Seems like they only cared because he had it on company property. If that's the case then it should be fine.
I'll bet he signed a handbook of some kind including racial shite. Company asks you to remove it, you don't, you suffer the consequences.
The first amendment doesn't allow you to do whatever you want. Lots of people seem to think it does. Legally, you can have that flag, companies don't have to allow it on their property.
I'll bet he signed a handbook of some kind including racial shite. Company asks you to remove it, you don't, you suffer the consequences.
The first amendment doesn't allow you to do whatever you want. Lots of people seem to think it does. Legally, you can have that flag, companies don't have to allow it on their property.
Posted on 7/22/15 at 5:22 pm to Turbeauxdog
quote:
Meh , the Supreme Court has already said many times that private companies must make reasonable accommodations for religion, why not speech?
Asking him to remove it or be fired isn't unreasonable. This flag isn't a God. Religion and confederate pride 150 years later aren't the same. And I have no issues with the flag
Posted on 7/22/15 at 5:32 pm to BilJ
Presumptuous fella you are it appears.
Posted on 7/22/15 at 5:34 pm to ForeverLSU02
quote:
Sims says all this goes beyond the flag, all the way to his First Amendment right of free speech.
Posted on 7/22/15 at 5:36 pm to CadesCove
They prob wouldn't make the first peep.
Confederate flag? Oh shite, run, call the cops, fire people and stuff.
BTW, solid comparison.
Confederate flag? Oh shite, run, call the cops, fire people and stuff.
BTW, solid comparison.
Posted on 7/22/15 at 6:14 pm to ForeverLSU02
frick turner industries need to picket them.
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