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re: Abraham Lincoln radically changed the nature of the Civil War on this day 161 years ago

Posted on 9/22/23 at 2:42 pm to
Posted by AU66
Northport Al
Member since Sep 2006
3264 posts
Posted on 9/22/23 at 2:42 pm to
quote:

Sherman did his job. This is warfare. You play for keeps and do what has to be done to make the other side give up.


At this point in history it was considered very poor form, Lee refused to do this saying he will not fighy anyone that doesnt take up arms against him. Union officers even remarked about how little damage southern armies did to private property while in the north. The South on the way to Gettysburg could have literally burned up the east coast. One side commited war crimes and it was almost exlusively the union.
Posted by thejuiceisloose
UNO Fan
Member since Nov 2018
4181 posts
Posted on 9/22/23 at 2:43 pm to
quote:

I like hearing the truth and Lincoln launched a war to stop southern seccession which was gauranteed by the 10th amendment. The constitution is quite on the issue so the states are relegated the power, Lincoln was a tyrant. Sorry to break it to you union just causers.


I would love to hear your constitutional law analysis on how the 10th amendment guaranteed secession.
I would also love to hear who taught you how to spell the words "secession" and "guaranteed".
Posted by BigTx
Member since Aug 2021
511 posts
Posted on 9/22/23 at 2:45 pm to
quote:

I meant this to say that slavery being on the way out isn't a defense to let it run it's course. They were too far away from it running it's course to let it continue.

Agreed.. I'm not sure how anyone could argue otherwise.
Posted by AU66
Northport Al
Member since Sep 2006
3264 posts
Posted on 9/22/23 at 2:50 pm to
quote:

10th amendment guaranteed secession. I would also love to hear who taught you how to spell the words "secession" and "guaranteed


Well kinda hard to type when your driving on a deserted long stretch of highway, as far as gaurateeing the right of secession its a lot stronger than the weak Texas ruling that supposedly ruled seccession unlawful in 69. The tenth CLEARLY defines it. Theres a reason no confederates were tried for treason, Jeff Davis practicaly begged for it. The Union was advised against it.
This post was edited on 9/22/23 at 2:54 pm
Posted by cas4t
Member since Jan 2010
70922 posts
Posted on 9/22/23 at 2:55 pm to
quote:

All your history threads absolutely suck. They should be downvoted into oblivion


A- this is not true

B- clearly an alter
Posted by CarRamrod
Spurbury, VT
Member since Dec 2006
57460 posts
Posted on 9/22/23 at 2:55 pm to
quote:

The 1860 Census is a beautiful thing.
so show the information... because "Something like" isnt very confident.
Posted by F1y0n7h3W4LL
Below I-10
Member since Jul 2019
1511 posts
Posted on 9/22/23 at 2:56 pm to
quote:

He did. Ever heard of the Thirteenth Amendment?


A whopping 2 years after the Emancipation Proclamation. Sounds more like political pandering than anything.

President Abraham Lincoln's Emancipation Proclamation, effective on January 1, 1863, declared that the enslaved in Confederate-controlled areas were free.


From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Thirteenth Amendment (Amendment XIII) to the United States Constitution abolished slavery and involuntary servitude, except as punishment for a crime. The amendment was passed by the Senate on April 8, 1864, by the House of Representatives on January 31, 1865, and ratified by the required 27 of the then 36 states on December 6, 1865, and proclaimed on December 18. It was the first of the three Reconstruction Amendments adopted following the American Civil War.
Posted by RollTide1987
Augusta, GA
Member since Nov 2009
65133 posts
Posted on 9/22/23 at 2:58 pm to
quote:

Lincoln had no authority to free the slaves in the CSA. It was all just smoke and mirrors.


And yet slaves who wandered into Union lines in the aftermath of the Emancipation Proclamation were not returned to their owners.
Posted by CarRamrod
Spurbury, VT
Member since Dec 2006
57460 posts
Posted on 9/22/23 at 3:06 pm to
quote:

Sherman did his job. This is warfare. You play for keeps and do what has to be done to make the other side give up.


amazing you condemn slavery yet celebrate Sherman.
Posted by CarRamrod
Spurbury, VT
Member since Dec 2006
57460 posts
Posted on 9/22/23 at 3:09 pm to
quote:

And yet slaves who wandered into Union lines in the aftermath of the Emancipation Proclamation were not returned to their owners.


Nope, they were handed a gun and told turn around and go fight.
Posted by GetCocky11
Calgary, AB
Member since Oct 2012
51308 posts
Posted on 9/22/23 at 3:09 pm to
quote:

so show the information... because "Something like" isnt very confident.



If you were truly interested, you would look it up yourself.
Posted by DisplacedBuckeye
Member since Dec 2013
71925 posts
Posted on 9/22/23 at 3:10 pm to
quote:

At this point in history it was considered very poor form, Lee refused to do this saying he will not fighy anyone that doesnt take up arms against him. Union officers even remarked about how little damage southern armies did to private property while in the north. The South on the way to Gettysburg could have literally burned up the east coast. One side commited war crimes and it was almost exlusively the union.


Next time just say the South FAFO.
Posted by SelaTiger
Member since Aug 2016
18050 posts
Posted on 9/22/23 at 3:12 pm to
Abe Lincoln was a homo.
Posted by CarRamrod
Spurbury, VT
Member since Dec 2006
57460 posts
Posted on 9/22/23 at 3:18 pm to
quote:

ou were truly interested, you would look it up yourself.
oohh you are one of those debaters?
Posted by Hateradedrink
Member since May 2023
1292 posts
Posted on 9/22/23 at 3:19 pm to
I prefer countries that didn’t lose civil wars.
Posted by GetCocky11
Calgary, AB
Member since Oct 2012
51308 posts
Posted on 9/22/23 at 3:19 pm to
quote:

oohh you are one of those debaters?


I'm not wrong.
Posted by PrezCock
Florida
Member since Sep 2019
603 posts
Posted on 9/22/23 at 3:19 pm to
quote:

And yet slaves who wandered into Union lines in the aftermath of the Emancipation Proclamation were not returned to their owners.


Which I'm sure was done for completely empathetic reasons. That isn't even the point that I would argue. The point I argue is that the Emancipation Proclamation was just window dressing. It did not do a damn thing, it did not free a single slave. It was a purely political stunt. If it wasn't, and it was done with the purest of intentions, well then Lincoln would have freed every slave. North, South, Border States. But, he didn't. He isn't the hero he is made out to be.
Posted by DisplacedBuckeye
Member since Dec 2013
71925 posts
Posted on 9/22/23 at 3:20 pm to
quote:

oohh you are one of those debaters?


People who shite on the Socratic Method have always amused me.
Posted by DakIsNoLB
Baton Rouge
Member since Sep 2015
582 posts
Posted on 9/22/23 at 3:22 pm to
quote:

At this point in history it was considered very poor form, Lee refused to do this saying he will not fighy anyone that doesnt take up arms against him. Union officers even remarked about how little damage southern armies did to private property while in the north. The South on the way to Gettysburg could have literally burned up the east coast. One side commited war crimes and it was almost exlusively the union.



These were his orders:

quote:

IV. The army will forage liberally on the country during the march. To this end, each brigade commander will organize a good and sufficient foraging party, under the command of one or more discreet officers, who will gather, near the route traveled, corn or forage of any kind, meat of any kind, vegetables, corn-meal, or whatever is needed by the command, aiming at all times to keep in the wagons at least ten days' provisions for the command and three days' forage. Soldiers must not enter the dwellings of the inhabitants, or commit any trespass, but during a halt or a camp they may be permitted to gather turnips, apples, and other vegetables, and to drive in stock in sight of their camp. To regular foraging parties must be intrusted the gathering of provisions and forage at any distance from the road traveled.

V. To army corps commanders alone is intrusted the power to destroy mills, houses, cotton-gins, &c., and for them this general principle is laid down: In districts and neighborhoods where the army is unmolested no destruction of such property should be permitted; but should guerrillas or bushwhackers molest our march, or should the inhabitants burn bridges, obstruct roads, or otherwise manifest local hostility, then army commanders should order and enforce a devastation more or less relentless according to the measure of such hostility.

VI. As for horses, mules, wagons, &c., belonging to the inhabitants, the cavalry and artillery may appropriate freely and without limit, discriminating, however, between the rich, who are usually hostile, and the poor or industrious, usually neutral or friendly. Foraging parties may also take mules or horses to replace the jaded animals of their trains, or to serve as pack-mules for the regiments or brigades. In all foraging, of whatever kind, the parties engaged will refrain from abusive or threatening language, and may, where the officer in command thinks proper, give written certificates of the facts, but no receipts, and they will endeavor to leave with each family a reasonable portion for their maintenance.

VII. Negroes who are able-bodied and can be of service to the several columns may be taken along, but each army commander will bear in mind that the question of supplies is a very important one and that his first duty is to see to them who bear arms...


How are his armies strayed from these orders, I don't know.

And Robert E. Lee, whether he would have or not, had have known that if he did go after Northern infrastructure and property, then invading Northen armies thereafter would follow suit. I'm guessing he would not risk it especially since he wanted local support.
Posted by TheChicotKid
Member since Sep 2023
282 posts
Posted on 9/22/23 at 3:22 pm to
Why do you regurgitate the same 50-60 threads every year, is it to start shite?
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