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Posted on 4/9/19 at 8:27 pm to LongueCarabine
quote:
They are all considered American veterans.
quote:
A fine point that idiots can't seem to grasp.
I think, iirc, it took a while after Lee's death for the U.S. to even acknowledge that he was a citizen, been a while since history class
Posted on 4/9/19 at 8:27 pm to xiv
quote:
Thank God for the decisive United States victory.
Nobody in this thread thinks otherwise, not even sure what kind of point you have been trying to make in this thread. It’s just a thread about history, believe it or not, all or vast majority are happy of the outcome.
This post was edited on 4/9/19 at 8:28 pm
Posted on 4/9/19 at 8:29 pm to windshieldman
quote:Good
Nobody in this thread thinks otherwise
Posted on 4/9/19 at 8:30 pm to LongueCarabine
quote:
He is absolutely wrong. Lee was never tried for treason.
They were indicted with treason but it ended up being dropped. There were a number reasons they were dropped most notably because of Grant and wanting to heal the wounds of the war. Executing respected officers like Lee wouldn’t do much to help reconcile the two sides.
Plenty of losing side leaders throughout history have not been executed even though they could have been. But that doesn’t change the fact that they were traitors.
This post was edited on 4/9/19 at 8:32 pm
Posted on 4/9/19 at 8:33 pm to 1BamaRTR
quote:
But that doesn’t change the fact that they were traitors.
The definition of traitor is one who commits treason. Lee was never convicted of treason....ergo......
Posted on 4/9/19 at 8:34 pm to windshieldman
It's not an argument. I didn't see the edit you made before replying. I think Grant probably realized after Vicksburg that the war was really ending, and that softened his stance on terms of surrender. I just think Grant takes a bad rap as a general because he was a terrible president.
Posted on 4/9/19 at 8:38 pm to Tangineck
quote:
It's not an argument. I didn't see the edit you made before replying. I think Grant probably realized after Vicksburg that the war was really ending, and that softened his stance on terms of surrender. I just think Grant takes a bad rap as a general because he was a terrible president.
I don’t really think he was a bad general. It would be interesting to see how he did if the shoe was on the other foot and he had less men and resources. But he pretty much always accomplished his goals and that’s all he needed to do. You are probably correct on him softening his stance once war was closing up. I’ll admit I don’t know much about his presidency as far as what all went wrong.
Posted on 4/9/19 at 8:40 pm to LongueCarabine
shite I guess OJ (in his murder trial) and every single other person who wasn’t found guilty of a crime isn’t a murderer or criminal because they weren’t convicted. What Lee and the confederates did fits the very definition of treason listed in the constitution.
Posted on 4/9/19 at 8:46 pm to windshieldman
He had zero political experience prior. Corruption ran rampant. That's it in a nutshell.
I agree it would have been interesting to see how he would have fared on the other side of the conflict, and I also believe the results would be surprising to many people. I don't believe any general could have won the war for the South however, assuming that external variables can't be changed, such as foreign support. On a long enough timeline its impossible to overcome the manufacturing and manpower deficit.
I agree it would have been interesting to see how he would have fared on the other side of the conflict, and I also believe the results would be surprising to many people. I don't believe any general could have won the war for the South however, assuming that external variables can't be changed, such as foreign support. On a long enough timeline its impossible to overcome the manufacturing and manpower deficit.
Posted on 4/9/19 at 9:14 pm to 1BamaRTR
quote:
What Lee and the confederates did fits the very definition of treason listed in the constitution.
There’s a strong argument against that assertion.
Posted on 4/9/19 at 9:15 pm to guydiamond
quote:
taking up arms against the military he was a Colonel for and then asking to come back once he surrender to them?
He was going to defend whichever side Virginia chose because he refused to turn arms against his own friends and family. People then had more loyalty to their state than the country.
Way different mindset.
Posted on 4/9/19 at 9:18 pm to GarmischTiger
quote:
Lee did not surrender at the Appomattox Courthouse. He surrendered at Appomattox Courthouse (a village) in the home of Wilmer McLean.
Ironically Wilmer McLeans' home in Manassas played a prominent role in the war's first major battle. LINK
Posted on 4/9/19 at 10:02 pm to TigerFanInSouthland
quote:
There’s a strong argument against that assertion.
quote:
Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort.
Again the reason him and the others didn’t even go to trial over it had a lot more to do with trying to heal relations then with them supposedly not being a traitors.
This post was edited on 4/9/19 at 10:09 pm
Posted on 4/9/19 at 10:07 pm to Darth_Vader
Posted on 4/9/19 at 10:11 pm to 1BamaRTR
quote:
shite I guess OJ (in his murder trial) and every single other person who wasn’t found guilty of a crime isn’t a murderer or criminal
Do you have any idea of how the legal system works?
Posted on 4/9/19 at 10:15 pm to LongueCarabine
Yes I understand legally speaking they aren’t. But everyone (including most black people now) consider OJ to be a murderer. My point is people get away with crimes all the time.
If you intentionally kill somebody but there isn’t enough evidence to convict you, are you saying you’re not a murderer? Legally speaking you won’t be but that doesn’t mean you aren’t one.
I don’t get why a lot of you are offended by this. Calling him a traitor doesn’t mean he was a horrible person. He himself was heavily conflicted by it.
If you intentionally kill somebody but there isn’t enough evidence to convict you, are you saying you’re not a murderer? Legally speaking you won’t be but that doesn’t mean you aren’t one.
I don’t get why a lot of you are offended by this. Calling him a traitor doesn’t mean he was a horrible person. He himself was heavily conflicted by it.
This post was edited on 4/9/19 at 10:17 pm
Posted on 4/9/19 at 10:20 pm to 1BamaRTR
quote:
are you saying you’re not a murderer?
In a legal sense, no, you're not a murderer.
We can all believe what we want to believe, but when you throw words around like "traitor" you're being very loose with facts.
Posted on 4/9/19 at 10:52 pm to 1BamaRTR
quote:
The average American isn’t leading an army against America. I’m not criticizing him as a man, but he was by definition a traitor
So was George Washington and Thomas Jefferson.
One man's rebel is another man's freedom fighter.
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