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Message
re: Vilma meeting with Goodell 6/18 @ 10AM
Posted on 6/18/12 at 11:10 am to Sophandros
Posted on 6/18/12 at 11:10 am to Sophandros
I've been pretty whatever with this whole deal. Other than Drew signing, all I care about is getting football talk going again. But this really has me annoyed. I honestly thought that our guys WERE guilty and were just trying to get by on technicalities, to which I wasn't a big fan of. Now it's becoming very evident that Roger has built himself this throne and is now just in love with power. Like he's enjoying lording over the Saints like this. "You can come and appeal, but first you will dance for me.........then I will send you home". I mean, HOW ABSURD IS IT that he listens to the appeals as well?
2
Posted on 6/18/12 at 11:12 am to Mr. Wayne
quote:
The bounty hunters wanted no part and left while punching small children in the face and pushing over old people in wheel chairs along the way out.
I believe you forgot that they kicked the small children's pets and began yelling to each other, "PAY ME MY MONEY, MAN!"
Seriously, how in the hell could the NFL not be prepared for this. Why would an extra 6-8 hours make that much of a difference? Did they need to eat lunch and then take a nap after so they could have the energy to take on the players?
Posted on 6/18/12 at 11:12 am to Brettesaurus Rex
so now it was a "pay-for-pain" system?...I guess "pay-for-injury" was too false and "pay-for-performance" was too...what's the word...true.
Posted on 6/18/12 at 11:15 am to sicboy
quote:
sicboy
Exactly. At first, I figured every team did it, and the Saints were the ones that got caught. Oh well. That sucks. But now, it is just getting really agrivating how this "case" is beginning to unfold.
Posted on 6/18/12 at 11:16 am to Putty
Full story of the hearing.
NEW YORK - With each side saying the other requested it, Monday's appeal hearing for the four players suspended as a result of the New Orleans Saints bounty scandal adjourned abruptly after less than an hour. It is scheduled to reconvene at 1:45 p.m., but it remains unclear if the players will return.
Saints linebacker Jonathan Vilma, suspended by commissioner Roger Goodell for a full year without pay, said he will not participate further. Echoing the claims of the NFLPA but represented by his own counsel, Vilma indicated he considers Monday's hearing as something of a kangaroo court, given Goodell is essentially being asked to reconsider his own ruling.
"We had two fundamental issues that have come to the forefront today," Vilma attorney Peter Ginsberg said. "One is a question about how we ended up in a place, at a proceeding, where the commissioner has so unilaterally and in such a draconian fashion believes that he can take over control of a proceeding like this. Putting aside how we got here, even with regard to the few fundamental rules that should govern these proceedings he cannot abide by them. For an example, the commissioner was obligated to produce the documents to us within 72 hours before the proceeding. The NFL didn't produce any of their documents 72 hours before the proceedings. When you look at those documents it's clear the commissioner was withheld from us thousands of pages that he gathered during the course of his supposed investigation. He was also unwilling to present any witnesses to us. So we got upstairs and the commissioner has tried to regroup by adjourning today's hearing after we presented our position with regard to the process and with regard to the merits. We're not willing to participate in that kind of sham. The commissioner had legal obligations, procedural obligations. He failed in those obligations and as far as we're concerned these proceedings are over."
The NFL, for it's part, insists it complied with the language of the collective bargaining agreement by turning over some 200 out of tens of thousands of pages it amassed last Friday, three calendar days before the hearing. It was the players side that requested the adjournment, according to the NFL, to give it more time to review what has already been produced.
But it is what has not been produced that is telling, according to Ginsberg. Vilma stands accused of offering $10,000 to any teammate who took out an opposing quarterback in the 2009 playoffs, a chilling allegation he and Ginsberg say is untrue. There was no evidence in Friday's offering to support that charge, according to people favorable to the players who have reviewed it, and Ginsberg contends the massive files the NFL has thus far kept hidden would prove the falsity of the accusation.
"(Goodell) attempted to adjourn it, we closed the record," Ginsberg said. "For more abuse of the process and of Jonathan's rights? No, we've decided enough is enough. (Goodell) knows what the evidence is and if he chooses to ignore the evidence then we have to proceed as best we can to reclaim Jonathan's reputation."
Ginsberg thus left open the possibility, which he declined to address, that Vilma may seek additional recourse through the courts. Vilma has already filed a defamation lawsuit against Goodell personally in federal court in New Orleans.
"I'm an eternal optimist," Ginsberg said. "Perhaps the commissioner will rethink what he's doing."
NEW YORK - With each side saying the other requested it, Monday's appeal hearing for the four players suspended as a result of the New Orleans Saints bounty scandal adjourned abruptly after less than an hour. It is scheduled to reconvene at 1:45 p.m., but it remains unclear if the players will return.
Saints linebacker Jonathan Vilma, suspended by commissioner Roger Goodell for a full year without pay, said he will not participate further. Echoing the claims of the NFLPA but represented by his own counsel, Vilma indicated he considers Monday's hearing as something of a kangaroo court, given Goodell is essentially being asked to reconsider his own ruling.
"We had two fundamental issues that have come to the forefront today," Vilma attorney Peter Ginsberg said. "One is a question about how we ended up in a place, at a proceeding, where the commissioner has so unilaterally and in such a draconian fashion believes that he can take over control of a proceeding like this. Putting aside how we got here, even with regard to the few fundamental rules that should govern these proceedings he cannot abide by them. For an example, the commissioner was obligated to produce the documents to us within 72 hours before the proceeding. The NFL didn't produce any of their documents 72 hours before the proceedings. When you look at those documents it's clear the commissioner was withheld from us thousands of pages that he gathered during the course of his supposed investigation. He was also unwilling to present any witnesses to us. So we got upstairs and the commissioner has tried to regroup by adjourning today's hearing after we presented our position with regard to the process and with regard to the merits. We're not willing to participate in that kind of sham. The commissioner had legal obligations, procedural obligations. He failed in those obligations and as far as we're concerned these proceedings are over."
The NFL, for it's part, insists it complied with the language of the collective bargaining agreement by turning over some 200 out of tens of thousands of pages it amassed last Friday, three calendar days before the hearing. It was the players side that requested the adjournment, according to the NFL, to give it more time to review what has already been produced.
But it is what has not been produced that is telling, according to Ginsberg. Vilma stands accused of offering $10,000 to any teammate who took out an opposing quarterback in the 2009 playoffs, a chilling allegation he and Ginsberg say is untrue. There was no evidence in Friday's offering to support that charge, according to people favorable to the players who have reviewed it, and Ginsberg contends the massive files the NFL has thus far kept hidden would prove the falsity of the accusation.
"(Goodell) attempted to adjourn it, we closed the record," Ginsberg said. "For more abuse of the process and of Jonathan's rights? No, we've decided enough is enough. (Goodell) knows what the evidence is and if he chooses to ignore the evidence then we have to proceed as best we can to reclaim Jonathan's reputation."
Ginsberg thus left open the possibility, which he declined to address, that Vilma may seek additional recourse through the courts. Vilma has already filed a defamation lawsuit against Goodell personally in federal court in New Orleans.
"I'm an eternal optimist," Ginsberg said. "Perhaps the commissioner will rethink what he's doing."
This post was edited on 6/18/12 at 11:19 am
Posted on 6/18/12 at 11:16 am to Jayson78
quote:
He really wanted to get it resolved but they just wouldn't listen.
He heard the appeal, they received their due process, now the only way to get the decision changed is to take Goodell down. That's not going to be easy even if the facts are on their side. As others have said, the MSM is not going to help, at least not until they smell Goodell's blood in the water.
Posted on 6/18/12 at 11:20 am to TigerinATL
Ya'll should go read the statement by Hargrove's lawyer that is printed in full in the Times Picayune today.
He really lit into Goodell pretty damn good.
He really lit into Goodell pretty damn good.
Posted on 6/18/12 at 11:22 am to sicboy
quote:
The commissioner had legal obligations, procedural obligations. He failed in those obligations and as far as we're concerned these proceedings are over."
Posted on 6/18/12 at 11:24 am to notiger1997
quote:
Ya'll should go read the statement by Hargrove's lawyer that is printed in full in the Times Picayune today.
link?
Posted on 6/18/12 at 11:27 am to sicboy
quote:
The NFL, for it's part, insists it complied with the language of the collective bargaining agreement by turning over some 200 out of tens of thousands of pages it amassed last Friday, three calendar days before the hearing.
Also reported, these 200 pages were all pages featuring new Nike uniform ads and cat photos. Goodell feels that that shows a lot about why the players are still getting such punishments.
This post was edited on 6/18/12 at 11:27 am
Posted on 6/18/12 at 11:33 am to TigerinATL
quote:
mike freeman?@realfreemancbs To me, from what I've read with my own two eyes, this isn't proof. That doesn't mean the NFL doesn't have it, it just means this isn't it.
True, lack of evidence does not imply the evidence that something is lacking, BUT in this case there are extenuating circumstances, like using a newspaper column written well after all the punishments as "evidence" or not suspending anyone from 2010 or 2011 or any of a number of other problems that we've seen with the execution of this situation...
Posted on 6/18/12 at 11:34 am to Sophandros
Is there a reason why the actual proof hasn't been shown? These have been some hard core penalties handed out without so much as a smidgen of evidence. I'm not going to say that it doesn't exist, but just show us.
Posted on 6/18/12 at 11:37 am to sicboy
quote:
HOW ABSURD IS IT that he listens to the appeals as well?
blame the NFLPA on that one
Posted on 6/18/12 at 11:37 am to sicboy
ok so can anyone tell me what happened in the meeting? does anyone know yet? or do we have to wait for a statement?
Posted on 6/18/12 at 11:38 am to sicboy
quote:
Is there a reason why the actual proof hasn't been shown? These have been some hard core penalties handed out without so much as a smidgen of evidence. I'm not going to say that it doesn't exist, but just show us.
The theory I've heard (and tend to agree with) is that if they do have hard proof evidence, they may be unwilling to show it because they could be shown liable in lawsuits that they were aware of something that was endangering player safety and did not act quickly enough.
Posted on 6/18/12 at 11:39 am to Patrick O Rly
per the new CBA Goodell doesn't have to show proof
Posted on 6/18/12 at 11:40 am to sicboy
quote:
I'm not going to say that it doesn't exist, but just show us.
Right.
If the Saints did what Goddell said they did, fine. I have no problem with the players getting punished for this type of system. But with no evidence being provided (as of yet), the NFL is losing some credibility on this issue.
Posted on 6/18/12 at 11:41 am to sicboy
quote:
Is there a reason why the actual proof hasn't been shown? These have been some hard core penalties handed out without so much as a smidgen of evidence. I'm not going to say that it doesn't exist, but just show us.
I've been screaming this for the last three and half months.
The logical burden of proof is on Goodell. The media, instead of taking him at his word, should have demanded evidence from Day 1. ALL FANS, not just Saints fans, should have demanded evidence from Day 1.
I've seen retards compare this to Big Ben, but here's the thing: The NFL didn't make the claim that Big Ben did something wrong. In that case, the evidence was quite clear that Big Ben had hurt the league's image.
In this case, THE LEAGUE HAS TO PROVE THAT THE SAINTS HAVE HURT THE LEAGUE'S IMAGE OR COMMITTED THE INFRACTIONS AS STATED. This has yet to be established, and for some reason, very few people demanded proof from the get go.
Posted on 6/18/12 at 11:42 am to NorthshoreTiger76
quote:
per the new CBA Goodell doesn't have to show proof
And? It still doesn't explain why he hasn't. He's casting doubt upon himself by not showing it, and in my view, it's because either 1) he doesn't have sufficient evidence or 2) the evidence is damning towards to the NFL as well.
Posted on 6/18/12 at 11:42 am to Wooly
I posted an article just now. It's Vilma's lawyer's take on it all.
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