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re: The case against Derek Barnett
Posted on 4/21/17 at 12:40 pm to Fun Bunch
Posted on 4/21/17 at 12:40 pm to Fun Bunch
The Terrell Suggs stuff is silly. One of a handful of outliers over a 15 year period.
By simply playing the percentages he is way way way more likely to fail then to become Suggs. Which is why I've maintained it's too risky to pick a 27th percentile DE at pick 11. Esp if we give up pick 32. The payoff isn't high enough
By simply playing the percentages he is way way way more likely to fail then to become Suggs. Which is why I've maintained it's too risky to pick a 27th percentile DE at pick 11. Esp if we give up pick 32. The payoff isn't high enough
0
Posted on 4/21/17 at 12:47 pm to Lester Earl
quote:
Barnett 39 games
Garrett 34 games
Gotta love zero context
That just closes the gap in overall performance but not in SEC play. Alot of Garrett's sacks came against week opposition.
This post was edited on 4/21/17 at 12:48 pm
Posted on 4/21/17 at 1:00 pm to BRL79
As I said that graphic has no context. There are weak SEC teams too, bubba. SEC west >>>>>>>>>east
Barnett has 15 sacks vs Vandy, UK and SC over the last 3 years.
That's no different then getting numbers vs Rice or SMU
Barnett has 15 sacks vs Vandy, UK and SC over the last 3 years.
That's no different then getting numbers vs Rice or SMU
Posted on 4/21/17 at 1:14 pm to Fun Bunch
Barnett would be an extreme reach at 11. He will be a poor mans Will Smith. Can't believe so many Saints fans want him at 11. He doesn't have any real upside. Give me a RB or TE over him any day of the week
Posted on 4/21/17 at 1:24 pm to Lester Earl
quote:
Barnett has 15 sacks vs Vandy, UK and SC over the last 3 years.
That's no different then getting numbers vs Rice or SMU
Holden played LT there. He's got a shot to be a mid round pick. Ditto Sharpe with UF (Barnett beat him for 2 sacks last season). I know that he beat Cam Robinson (probable 1st rounder) for a sack last season.
I know people here are cooling on Barnett, but I would be thrilled to have him at 11.
Posted on 4/21/17 at 1:45 pm to THRILLHO
I think CB/S is a strong possibility at 11 and then Jordan Willis at 32.
Posted on 4/21/17 at 1:48 pm to Fun Bunch
Similar combine numbers to Joey Bosa.
Posted on 4/21/17 at 1:56 pm to FitzBlitz52
quote:
His elite hands are what kept him in the mix throughout his college career
I don't know where people get this from. His snap anticipation is what makes him so great as a pass rusher. He's ELITE at it. His hands are above average. He's able to bend the edge so well because he gets off the ball before the tackle can complete his kick step.
Posted on 4/21/17 at 1:58 pm to Meateye
quote:
I'm just gonna leave these here......
I've been saying if you actually go look at Barnett's game by game stats he has done it against better competition more consistently than anyone else in this draft.
And he doesn't have any stat skewing games against weak competition like many of the other guys. Hell he doesn't have any stat skewing games period. Just consistent production.
And that's in the run game too. He was a factor in every game minus 1-2 (except where he was pulled early against a weak team they dominated in 2-3 other games).
The two biggest issues are his speed (which let's face it he'll rarely be running 40 yards in a straight line) and lack of pass rush moves.
Elite hands and elite body bending.
Posted on 4/21/17 at 1:58 pm to Lester Earl
quote:
Barnett has 15 sacks vs Vandy, UK and SC over the last 3 years.
That's no different then getting numbers vs Rice or SMU
Wouldn't say that's 100% accurate.
ETA: Just out of curiosity, how many of Garrett's SEC sacks came from lower tier SEC teams like you described?
This post was edited on 4/21/17 at 2:00 pm
Posted on 4/21/17 at 2:00 pm to rmnldr
quote:
His snap anticipation is what makes him so great as a pass rusher. He's ELITE at it.
I wouldn't even call it snap anticipation. The guy guessed snap counts. He has taken a boatload of penalties for it, too.
@ OP: I'm not interested in Barnett at 11. I won't melt down if we select him, but I'm almost positive we won't. FO wants players with a high ceiling. Barnett is a very, very poor athlete for his position. Even if he mastered his hand usage, continued his relentless motor and added more pass rushing moves he is capped at like a 6-8 sack player because almost every starting NFL tackle is going to have a hefty athletic advantage on him.
The more I think about it, the more I think DE at 11 is a waste. There will not be any DEs worth the selection there. We're much better off looking at someone like Watt or Harris at 32. There is a ton of 2nd-tier pass rushers in this draft that we can take at 32 or 42 IMO.
Posted on 4/21/17 at 2:01 pm to rmnldr
Posted on 4/21/17 at 2:06 pm to smash williams
quote:
Similar combine numbers to Joey Bosa.
not really.
Bosa vs Barnett
Ht: 6'5 vs 6'3
Wt: 269lbs vs 259lbs
Arm: 33 3/8 vs 32 1/8
Hand: 10 1/4 vs 10
things in () are pro day
40: 4.86 (4.77) vs 4.88
Bench: 24 (28) vs --- (20)
Vert: 32 (31.5) vs 31 (31)
Broad: 120 (121) vs 117 (112)
3 cone: 6.89 vs 6.96 (7.12)
20 shuttle: 4.21 vs 4.44 (4.49)
Posted on 4/21/17 at 2:08 pm to Lester Earl
quote:
Barnett 39 games
Garrett 34 games
Gotta love zero context
The top chart is percentages. Total games wouldn't change that.
For the other chart:
Garrett:
Pressures per game- 4.82
Sacks per game- 0.91
Barnett:
Pressure per game- 4.79
Sacks per game- 0.87
Very comparable. I'd take a guy that compares favorable to the obvious #1 pick all day. Just sayin'.
Posted on 4/21/17 at 2:10 pm to bonethug0108
Numbers are slightly skewed when you look at just percentages though. By 2016 Garrett was very consistently facing multiple blockers on almost every down.
Posted on 4/21/17 at 2:14 pm to htran90
Remember that Barnett had a tweaked hammy and pulled it on his first 40 run at his pro day also. Prettt much every other drill that day suffered because of that.
And he was sick at the combine but I don't think that factors in nearly as much as a tweaked hammy.
And he was sick at the combine but I don't think that factors in nearly as much as a tweaked hammy.
Posted on 4/21/17 at 2:15 pm to Rand AlThor
Barnett looks like he's going to be a fat slob 4 years into his career. Very likely saint.
Posted on 4/21/17 at 2:20 pm to bonethug0108
the tweaked hammy definitely explains the worse pro day #s
I'm not sure I buy how sick he was.
I'm a fan of Barnett, but I am cautious. he's a less athletic cam jordan. Barnett is the type of guy who's gonna play well vs the run and cap out at 7-8 sacks a year unless EVERYONE on the line is playing lights out.
I'm not sure I buy how sick he was.
I'm a fan of Barnett, but I am cautious. he's a less athletic cam jordan. Barnett is the type of guy who's gonna play well vs the run and cap out at 7-8 sacks a year unless EVERYONE on the line is playing lights out.
Posted on 4/21/17 at 2:21 pm to htran90
The combine numbers are similar. I would never compare pro day numbers from 2 different universities.
Posted on 4/21/17 at 2:24 pm to Meateye
Derek Barnett played in the SEC East. That's basically outside the SEC.
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