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Message
re: Saints trading CGJ to eagles for 5th and 6th round picks.
Posted on 8/30/22 at 3:24 pm to SlowFlowPro
Posted on 8/30/22 at 3:24 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
That's not what the replies were in response to. That's an evolution of the argument after the fact.
no. YOU keep making that argument. Its a strawman.
quote:
Also, assuming no CGJ or Jenkins, AND ignoring the true focus of my posts in this thread (cap mismanagement), there would still be millions to use next to MW's 14M/year hit and the combined cap hits of TM/MM to sign a SS.
The true focus of your presence in this thread is to gaslight everyone over Marcus Williams. When the decision was made not to retain MW, the franchise was trying to clear 7MM in cap space to make room for Deshaun Watson. You dont get to go back and second guess the FO armed with knowledge they didnt have at the time. Further, you dont get to pretend that the franchise didnt get high production value at the safety position without over extending in the fallout of Jenkins' retirement.
quote:
then the only analysis with CGJ would be the difference in cost between what he wanted and what we offered, which, when combined with MW, would be less than TM/MM
Bruh what? Hes making less than 1MM AAS, he was looking for 12MM or be traded. We would have been on the hook for 25MM AAS for him and MW. No one in the league is taking that deal over TM+MM for roughly 17MM per year with the ability to walk away after 2 years.
Even if we could have signed CJGJ for 8MM (which he declined), he and MW at 14MM still costs you 21MM.
We are better off.
This post was edited on 8/30/22 at 3:28 pm
1
Posted on 8/30/22 at 3:25 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
No I said he's declining and we don't know if CGJ or TM will be better players/value over the next 3-5 years.
Based on what? Not being All-Pro for the 3rd straight year?
Posted on 8/30/22 at 3:26 pm to RB10
you need all sorts of magic and wizardry to make SFP's arguments work.
Posted on 8/30/22 at 3:30 pm to Vacherie Saint
quote:
We would have been on the hook for 25MM AAS for him and MW.
And how much for TM + MM + Chauncey at 8M/per?
That's the amount we decided was worth it, so the discussion is what we could have done with a slightly better cap situation.
quote:
Even if we could have signed CJGJ for 8MM (which he declined), he and MW at 14MM still costs you 21MM.
And TM + MM costs you 19, so in the same ballpark.
But we were willing to do TM + MM + CGJ at 8M per, so more like 27M/per for all 3. More than MW + CGJ (even at 12M)
Posted on 8/30/22 at 3:33 pm to RB10
quote:
Based on what? Not being All-Pro for the 3rd straight year?
We'll see. Age is the primary variable.
I'm not saying CGJ will have a better career than TM, but it's not unlikely that he will have a better 2022-2027
Posted on 8/30/22 at 3:35 pm to SlowFlowPro
Here you go again. You are trying to compare 3 safeties to 2. Of course that's going to cost more. And further, you are assuming that the FO had this info about CJGJ back in March when they allowed MW to walk. You are also assuming the FO wont go out and sign another DB to take CJGJs roster spot.
quote:under 17 AAS, not 19.
And TM + MM costs you 19
This post was edited on 8/30/22 at 3:37 pm
Posted on 8/30/22 at 3:37 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
But we were willing to do TM + MM + CGJ at 8M per, so more like 27M/per for all 3. More than MW + CGJ (even at 12M)
Yes, having 3 upper tier players is better than having 2.
Posted on 8/30/22 at 3:38 pm to Vacherie Saint
quote:
And further, you are assuming that the FO had this info about CJGJ back in March when they allowed MW to walk.
No. I only am comparing MW to MM.
My issues with the team in March re: CGJ was not understanding their place with CGJ so we could deal him at draft time when his value was peak.
Talking about the comparative value is just discussing how this board wants to write off CGJs value and how much we would spend on S/NB. We were willing to give him 8M/year (in addition to TM/MM). That would be a HEAVY investment in S/NB (which can then re-enter the MW discussion)
Posted on 8/30/22 at 3:38 pm to RB10
quote:
Yes, having 3 upper tier players is better than having 2.
and more expensive too! go figure. lol
Posted on 8/30/22 at 3:44 pm to Vacherie Saint
quote:
and more expensive too! go figure. lol
It’s also funny that he thinks paying a FS who excels at one thing, playing deep center, is such a great idea. Williams is a liability when asked to cover man-to-man, is a liability in the run game and was even a liability in deep center occasionally. Signing guys like this to absurd contracts, like he’s pushing for, is exactly why the saints are in such cap hell.
Saints went and signed two versatile guys to replace a limited FS, an aged out SS who left the team and a nickel back who overvalued his skill set as a safety.
I’d say they did just fine.
Posted on 8/30/22 at 3:44 pm to SlowFlowPro
I dont think anyone is writing off Johnsons value, but if nothing else changes, we happen to have a DB on the roster who was a top 10 slot corner before coming to NOLA. This situation sucks, but we'll be OK and I'm sure we'll address the resulting depth issue as roster cuts start to materialize.
You are just trying way too hard to make the MW decision seem like some grave mistake. The reality is, we did incredibly well considering Jenkins quit and CJGJ decided to demand elite safety money or be traded. If we were on the hook for 23MM for MW and TM, would we have even offered CJGJ 8MM? I seriously doubt it.
You are just trying way too hard to make the MW decision seem like some grave mistake. The reality is, we did incredibly well considering Jenkins quit and CJGJ decided to demand elite safety money or be traded. If we were on the hook for 23MM for MW and TM, would we have even offered CJGJ 8MM? I seriously doubt it.
Posted on 8/30/22 at 3:56 pm to RB10
quote:
It’s also funny that he thinks paying a FS who excels at one thing, playing deep center, is such a great idea.
He was a big part in how our D was allowed to play the past few years. Very few teams, if any, played more man than we did. That's all on MW's deep coverage. I worry that we can't replace it that easily, like how Seattle's D imploded once Earl Thomas was off their roster. He made the D go.
Yesterday I was worried that we were going to change our scheme because we lost MW...and that's without Allen being our fulltime DC and a co-DC situation leading it. Now after losing CGJ, I'm LEGIT worried about our D having major issues this year. We are likely either going to have to run less man (and completely change our D) or we're going to play our 2021 scheme, just less well.
But that's for another thread.
Posted on 8/30/22 at 4:01 pm to Vacherie Saint
quote:
If we were on the hook for 23MM for MW and TM, would we have even offered CJGJ 8MM? I seriously doubt it.
I wouldn't care unless we bungled his value, but it would mean a lot less to me.
Losing MW and CGJ for almost nothing in the same offseason is mind-bending it's so bad. Imagine telling people a year ago that we would be losing both for almost nothing. Nobody would believe that our front office could frick it up that badly.
Posted on 8/30/22 at 4:02 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
We'll pay 11M for Maye but not 14M for MW? I don't think those lines are as hard as you think.
Marcus maye's contract is peanuts compared to marcus williams'.
Posted on 8/30/22 at 4:06 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Which will possibly be a lower % of cap by then than TM's hit this year is in 2022. Cap's about to explode, and back-loading that deal is going to make it seem like peanuts.
So you are going to use this argument to help yourself but shite on the saints for their cap management when they do the same thing.
Posted on 8/30/22 at 4:09 pm to Chalkywhite84
quote:
So you are going to use this argument to help yourself but shite on the saints for their cap management when they do the same thing.
It's not the same thing.
There are no void years or complicated structures. He got a huge bonus and has big salaries starting year 3.
Our strategy is to waste cap with dead cap hits. Our standard contracts now literally create dead cap b/c we use void years in EVERY contract it seems. TM and MM both have void years and automatic dead cap. There is no dead cap in MW's deal right now. There may be if they cut him, but they have full cap usage until that point from this deal.
Posted on 8/30/22 at 4:09 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
We don't know what Maye is in 2022. He could be another Jarius Byrd.
Holy shite.
I'm done.
Posted on 8/30/22 at 4:12 pm to Chalkywhite84
quote:
Holy shite.
I'm done.
Have you seen him play a regular season snap since his injury?
Posted on 8/30/22 at 4:27 pm to Chalkywhite84
quote:
Holy shite.
I'm done.
You’re talking to a guy who just compareed Marcus Williams to Earl Thomas. Because, you know, the saints and their man scheme to totally the same as the complicated zone scheme the Seahawks ran.
Dude is in full clown mode.
Posted on 8/30/22 at 4:43 pm to tigersquad89
saints got ripped in that deal.
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