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re: If Brock Bowers or Rome Odunze are still on the board at 14, do you take one of them?
Posted on 3/29/24 at 10:52 am to High Life
Posted on 3/29/24 at 10:52 am to High Life
quote:
There are busts at every position but I think OL is one of the easier ones to predict. Size, athleticism, experience, character traits is all you need to look at. They’re large bodies who’s job is to get in the way the defense. It’s not rocket science.
I don’t know about that. I think OL is just a big of a crapshoot as any other position unless its a sure fire top 3 guy. Just look at past couple of drafts and its so random in regards to what OL hit and the ones that dont.
1
Posted on 3/29/24 at 11:06 am to ForTheWin81
quote:
My point is there are alot more guys that can play LT than an do what Bowers will do. I think he's a better athlete than Kelce no doubt. He's going to have a huge impact on how defenses have to defend you for years to come. He's going to have a Gronk type impact for the offense
Everyone keeps naming elite TEs. These are the two best TEs of all time. None of which were drafted early. TE has very little to do with being a freak one of kind athlete. It has everything to do with your scheme and who your QB is and how good the rest of your offense is. Everyone keeps saying OT is hit or miss. You could say the same about every single position. The reason OT is hard to draft is because there’s usually only a handful of legit guys every year and they’re always taken early 1st round. Most all the top 10 tackles in the nfl today are taken in the early first round. You pass on those guys and your drafting a bust, bandaid, or backup. The best TEs in the nfl are taken all over the place. Kelce, kittle, etc.
Posted on 3/29/24 at 11:11 am to Pels_Yaz
Everything is a crapshoot I agree. But your odds of getting a legit OL outside of the early 1st is way lower than any other position. There are at least 4 tackles that are very close to being a for sure bet. I’m very confident one will be available. KC just won multiple super bowls without an elite WR and kelce is a 3rd rounder who makes $15mm/year. They wouldn’t say this but they value the guys protecting Mahomes > kelce at this point
Posted on 3/29/24 at 11:15 am to High Life
quote:
Everything is a crapshoot I agree. But your odds of getting a legit OL outside of the early 1st is way lower than any other position. There are at least 4 tackles that are very close to being a for sure bet. I’m very confident one will be available. KC just won multiple super bowls without an elite WR and kelce is a 3rd rounder who makes $15mm/year. They wouldn’t say this but they value the guys protecting Mahomes > kelce at this point
I agree most legit OT are drafted in first round so you have to take your shot.
In regards to KC, I think Mahomes is just different. I honestly couldn’t name one OL on that team. Kelce is very important to that team and frankly probably more than the random OL they bring in to protect Mahomes. Mahomes has a quick release and is very mobile too.
Posted on 3/29/24 at 11:16 am to High Life
quote:
But your odds of getting a legit OL outside of the early 1st is way lower than any other position
Show your work.
Posted on 3/29/24 at 11:31 am to SlowFlowPro
Bowers is a must draft if he’s there, no questions asked.
You take Bowers.
You take Bowers.
Posted on 3/29/24 at 11:42 am to Pels_Yaz
quote:
In regards to KC, I think Mahomes is just different. I honestly couldn’t name one OL on that team. Kelce is very important to that team and frankly probably more than the random OL they bring in to protect Mahomes. Mahomes has a quick release and is very mobile too.
In all honesty, it's the inside OL that keeps the pocket clean for Mahomes that makes the difference. Trey Smith, Creed Humphrey and Joe Thuney are the best G/C/G combo in the NFL, and they give Mahomes room to step up in the pocket whenever he wants.
His pocket is so clean and his release is so quick that the OT's don't have to work as hard to keep pass rushers off of Mahomes' blind side. The Chiefs also use so much movement and "eye candy" stunts that it's always a crapshoot for a pass rusher to overpursue.
And let's not even talk about Mahomes ability to scramble when a pass rusher DOES manage to get near him. Or what Pacheco can do if pass rushers focus too hard on Mahomes.
So, yeah, using KC as an example of the value of OT's is probably a stretch. Any other QB, or any other inside OL combo probably doesn't have the same oomph as the current Chiefs. But right now? It's a dream team setup at the core of the KC offense.
That said, would the Chiefs give their right eyetooth for a legit LT? Maybe. But like the Saints they've been burned drafting OT's (Eric Fischer says "Hi"). So they went shopping and found serviceable OT's that fit into the offensive scheme and the core of that offense: Mahomes, Kelce, Pacheco, and the inside OL.
IMO, though, if the Chiefs had a choice between Bowers and Alt right now, they'd probably take Bowers. They know better than anyone how valuable an elite TE can be to an offense (having had Tony G and then Kelce would make anyone spoiled, no?). And they won a SB with average OT's they picked up in the offseason.
That said, if the Chiefs had the chance to draft Bowers and develop him behind Kelce for a couple of seasons, I don't see how they could pass that up.
It's all moot, though, since KC would have to trade away the barn AND the horses in it for a pick high enough to get Bowers. Weirder things have happened, though....
Posted on 3/29/24 at 11:59 am to High Life
quote:
There are busts at every position but I think OL is one of the easier ones to predict. Size, athleticism, experience, character traits is all you need to look at. They’re large bodies who’s job is to get in the way the defense. It’s not rocket science.
Sorry, friend, but I have to disagree with you here.
Have you truly watched what the best OL's in the NFL have to do to make an offense elite? OL is probably one of the most technically demanding positions in modern football. You have to know the intimate details of every play, plus have an awareness of what your QB is doing (usually out of your sight), and deal with whatever a defense throws at you to disrupt the play.
The days of OL's simply being in "Hulk SMASH" mode have been gone for a long, long time. Now they're part of a well-choreographed action that involves multiple people as big as they are.
Think of it as being a ballet performed by Sumo wrestlers during a game of dodge-ball.
Again, IMO that's why OT's are the hardest position to reliably predict pre-draft, and why it's preferrable to go out and poach a good, proven LT from another team rather than try to draft one (there are exceptions, but they're few and far between).
That's not to say that the game isn't complex for TE's, though. It is, but for the most part it's the TE vs. the defense in most situations, whereas it's the entire OL functioning as a unit during 10 seconds of mayhem while blind to the actual movement of the man with the ball behind them.
Given those needs, you have a better chance of making a good evaluation of a TE coming out of college than you do on an OT.
At least, that's what I think. But what do I know about football? I'm just a nerd that's been pounding away mercilessly on a keyboard all day for 30+ years, so it's JMHO.
Posted on 3/29/24 at 12:12 pm to LooseCannon22282
Too bad none of our TE can catch.
Posted on 3/29/24 at 12:28 pm to Pels_Yaz
Didn't say anything of the sort. But you know that.
Posted on 3/29/24 at 12:29 pm to SlowFlowPro
Yeah I think he would like to take that one back lol
Posted on 3/29/24 at 12:39 pm to goatmilker
I mean you're going to find some highly-drafted guys among the elite, but that's every position.
Also, you don't need elite OTs to win, and winning teams have acquired a lot of OTs outside of the draft.
Also, you don't need elite OTs to win, and winning teams have acquired a lot of OTs outside of the draft.
Posted on 3/29/24 at 12:40 pm to Pels_Yaz
In one post, the one I responded to you said "is a bust" in your reply you now say " will be a bust".
Make up your damn mind lol
Make up your damn mind lol
Posted on 3/29/24 at 1:24 pm to LSUPilot07
Bowers should be in conversation
Posted on 3/29/24 at 1:50 pm to goatmilker
quote:
In one post, the one I responded to you said "is a bust" in your reply you now say " will be a bust". Make up your damn mind lol
Ok sheesh. Just semantics. Hes a bust and will remain a bust. There you go.
Posted on 3/29/24 at 1:56 pm to goatmilker
quote:
Didn't say anything of the sort. But you know that.
Then whats your point? Are you offended that I said Penning is a bust and you dont think he is yet? Look maybe you had high hopes for him and still do. But we benched him for guys off the street last year. I highly doubt they expect anything out of him. Hes not some Zach Strief but hey if you think he is good luck with that.
Posted on 3/29/24 at 2:02 pm to Pels_Yaz
quote:
Then whats your point?
If the Streif analogy didn't do it for you then we will call it a day on that subject. Have a good Good Friday
Posted on 3/29/24 at 2:08 pm to goatmilker
Ok my man. I get it he could blossom like Strief. I just think thats highly unlikely but hey you never know. Personally I think hes a crappier version of Charles Brown.
Posted on 3/29/24 at 2:17 pm to Pels_Yaz
If he can't find a spot as a starter somewhere on the line this year or be one hell of a versatile swing man he probably should check and see if his old room at home is still available.
Posted on 3/29/24 at 2:26 pm to ForTheWin81
With saints brain trust
Who knows
Will probably overreach for someone that becomes a healthy inactive on game days
Who knows
Will probably overreach for someone that becomes a healthy inactive on game days
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