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Posted on 4/19/17 at 9:41 am to Covingtontiger77
I'd prefer them not to make the trade if it's for a first or second.
Posted on 4/19/17 at 9:42 am to Covingtontiger77
Give the patriots 42# draft best De at 11 and 32 become a best player available..Ot
Posted on 4/19/17 at 9:43 am to Covingtontiger77
Butler is a proven #1 CB. Drafting a CB at 32 or 42 is far from a sure thing. Also, Butler is 27 not 28, so that's one more prime year. If the contract and trade compensation isn't awful, I'm all for making the move. Butler and Breaux would be the best CB duo we've had in a long time.
Posted on 4/19/17 at 9:43 am to Covingtontiger77
I'm tired of trying to fix this team with trades and free agent acquisitions. We need to rebuild this team through the draft.
Posted on 4/19/17 at 9:49 am to Covingtontiger77
There are two important things about this IMO that we should consider:
1. If we give back #32 for Butler, we basically know that the deal was: Cooks + 4th rounder FOR Butler + 3rd rounder
Since the move up from 4->3 was pretty small, this is basically a 1:1 swap. Cooks is a good player, but he is not even a pro-bowler. Butler is a 2nd-team All Pro. Even if you think Cooks is better than perceived, Butler is very clearly more valuable to us. A 1:1 swap is a win for us. I agree it is hard to swallow because it's nice to have two 1sts, but....
2. Look at the last players we picked at #31 & 32 - Anthony & Patrick Robinson. How is that working out for us so far? Having an All-pro who is in the prime of his career is worth far more to us right now when we are in the twilight of Drew's career and in desperate need of defensive help.
I find it ridiculous that the same people who say "The Saints suck at drafting!!" also say "Don't trade away #32 for a proven All-Pro CB!! We need the pick!!" .. Get it together people. This would be a great move for this team and instantly shore up one of our 2 biggest needs.
1. If we give back #32 for Butler, we basically know that the deal was: Cooks + 4th rounder FOR Butler + 3rd rounder
Since the move up from 4->3 was pretty small, this is basically a 1:1 swap. Cooks is a good player, but he is not even a pro-bowler. Butler is a 2nd-team All Pro. Even if you think Cooks is better than perceived, Butler is very clearly more valuable to us. A 1:1 swap is a win for us. I agree it is hard to swallow because it's nice to have two 1sts, but....
2. Look at the last players we picked at #31 & 32 - Anthony & Patrick Robinson. How is that working out for us so far? Having an All-pro who is in the prime of his career is worth far more to us right now when we are in the twilight of Drew's career and in desperate need of defensive help.
I find it ridiculous that the same people who say "The Saints suck at drafting!!" also say "Don't trade away #32 for a proven All-Pro CB!! We need the pick!!" .. Get it together people. This would be a great move for this team and instantly shore up one of our 2 biggest needs.
This post was edited on 4/19/17 at 9:50 am
Posted on 4/19/17 at 9:52 am to Covingtontiger77
I see Butler as a known commodity who can help us.
Honestly, I just don't trust the Saints front office to draft a front-line cornerback. When was the last time that they drafted a guy who came in and performed at Butler's level? Or even just below him? It's been a long time.
I think if we get a CB via draft, it will wind up being another "project" player. The Saints seem hell-bent on defensive projects. The hell with that. I'm cool with #32 on Butler.
Honestly, I just don't trust the Saints front office to draft a front-line cornerback. When was the last time that they drafted a guy who came in and performed at Butler's level? Or even just below him? It's been a long time.
I think if we get a CB via draft, it will wind up being another "project" player. The Saints seem hell-bent on defensive projects. The hell with that. I'm cool with #32 on Butler.
Posted on 4/19/17 at 10:06 am to Covingtontiger77
I'm fine with Butler for #32, only because we only have Brees for another couple of seasons so I don't mind slightly over-paying now for another shot at a Superbowl.
If we were re-building, I'd probably pass and just load up thru the draft.
QB's like Brees don't come around often. Do whatever it takes to win now.
If we were re-building, I'd probably pass and just load up thru the draft.
QB's like Brees don't come around often. Do whatever it takes to win now.
Posted on 4/19/17 at 10:09 am to Covingtontiger77
There has been one CB taken in the first round the last five years that is as good as Butler has been the past three years Marcus Peters
Pro Bowl CBs since 2012
Stephon Gilmore 1st round 2012
Janoris Jenkins 2nd round 2012
Casey Hayward 2nd round 2012
Josh Norman 5th round 2012
Desmond Trufant 1st Round 2013
Xavier Rhodes 1st Round 2013
Jason Verrett 1st Round 2014
Marcus Peters 1st Round 2015
That's a grand total of 8 pro-bowlers in the last five years drafted out of 156 CBs
of those 8 only 3 have been voted All Pro Marcus Peters, Janoris Jenkins, and Josh Norman.
Draft is too much of a crapshoot give me the proven commodity any day of the week.
Pro Bowl CBs since 2012
Stephon Gilmore 1st round 2012
Janoris Jenkins 2nd round 2012
Casey Hayward 2nd round 2012
Josh Norman 5th round 2012
Desmond Trufant 1st Round 2013
Xavier Rhodes 1st Round 2013
Jason Verrett 1st Round 2014
Marcus Peters 1st Round 2015
That's a grand total of 8 pro-bowlers in the last five years drafted out of 156 CBs
of those 8 only 3 have been voted All Pro Marcus Peters, Janoris Jenkins, and Josh Norman.
Draft is too much of a crapshoot give me the proven commodity any day of the week.
Posted on 4/19/17 at 10:29 am to Chad504boy
quote:
Butler fits our "window" more so than any prospect at 32 or 42.
This all day.
I think a lot of the skepticism that comes with trading our pick away is that it makes the draft less fun.
Posted on 4/19/17 at 10:33 am to The 25 Jersey
If Butler is so much of a proven #1 Cornerback why did the Patriots give Stephon Gilmore 65 million and RFA Butler the trading block
Posted on 4/19/17 at 10:36 am to Covingtontiger77
People talmbout his age? Wtf. He just made 27 in march. He's younger than Delvin Breaux.
Im ok with it either way. I was a little more gung ho when it came out but I'll admit I get more enamored with having two 1st because I like to research.
I'm still hoping they can get away with maybe dealing 42 and a late pick next year or something. Or maybe 42+ Stephone
Im ok with it either way. I was a little more gung ho when it came out but I'll admit I get more enamored with having two 1st because I like to research.
I'm still hoping they can get away with maybe dealing 42 and a late pick next year or something. Or maybe 42+ Stephone
This post was edited on 4/19/17 at 10:38 am
Posted on 4/19/17 at 10:41 am to biggdogg
quote:
If Butler is so much of a proven #1 Cornerback why did the Patriots give Stephon Gilmore 65 million and RFA Butler the trading block
I'm sure Payton and Loomis had same question and got the answer we don't know.
Posted on 4/19/17 at 10:44 am to Lester Earl
That's how it works. The closer you get to the draft, the more value in your mind that pick gets.
I'm kind of ambivalent at this point. If it happens, cool we get a good CB. If not more young players to talk about.
I'm kind of ambivalent at this point. If it happens, cool we get a good CB. If not more young players to talk about.
Posted on 4/19/17 at 10:47 am to whodatfan
quote:
I'm sure Payton and Loomis had same question and got the answer we don't know.
Lets say they think Gilmore is a 90 and Butler is an 85.
They had opportunity to sign GIlmore who wanted to play there.
DO you take the 90 as well as get value for Butler in return.
Or do you keep Butler and no other value coming in the door.
Answer is very obvious. Regardless how close of talent they think butler is to Gilmore.
Posted on 4/19/17 at 11:12 am to mindbreaker
quote:
That's a grand total of 8 pro-bowlers in the last five years drafted out of 156 CBs
Posted on 4/19/17 at 11:16 am to Covingtontiger77
Why do people keep saying Butler is a known commodity? Yeah, we know who he is in the Patriots' D, but that is not a direct correlation to how he'll fit in the Saints' scheme. Byrd was a known commodity for Buffalo and a very different player for the Saints.
For those who say Butler immediately slots in as CB1, you're not considering the build for a WR1 in the NFC South. Kelvin Benjamin, Mike Evans, and Julio Jones are all over 6'3". Butler is 5'11". Those numbers don't work well.
I'm not saying Butler is bad or anything. I'd just like more people to acknowledge his uncertainty. Draft picks are a crapshoot, but signing a player from another team is also no sure thing either.
For those who say Butler immediately slots in as CB1, you're not considering the build for a WR1 in the NFC South. Kelvin Benjamin, Mike Evans, and Julio Jones are all over 6'3". Butler is 5'11". Those numbers don't work well.
I'm not saying Butler is bad or anything. I'd just like more people to acknowledge his uncertainty. Draft picks are a crapshoot, but signing a player from another team is also no sure thing either.
Posted on 4/19/17 at 11:21 am to Costanza64
Well he is certainly more of a known quantity than a draft pick, that is for sure. I would imagine that is why he is being referred to that way. The guy has shut down some of the best WRs in the league.
I agree about the scheme thing - I think the biggest problem this team had from 2011-2014 is failing to acquire players that actually fit their scheme, Byrd being a prime example. This is an underrated part of scouting IMO, and something that is seemingly better with Ireland running the department at least. I don't think they would be pursuing Butler this hard if they didn't think he would fit what we want to do now.
I agree about the scheme thing - I think the biggest problem this team had from 2011-2014 is failing to acquire players that actually fit their scheme, Byrd being a prime example. This is an underrated part of scouting IMO, and something that is seemingly better with Ireland running the department at least. I don't think they would be pursuing Butler this hard if they didn't think he would fit what we want to do now.
Posted on 4/19/17 at 11:22 am to Covingtontiger77
quote:yes but will we pick one of those?
Draft is loaded with CBs that will be good to great,
Posted on 4/19/17 at 11:33 am to Costanza64
quote:
For those who say Butler immediately slots in as CB1, you're not considering the build for a WR1 in the NFC South. Kelvin Benjamin, Mike Evans, and Julio Jones are all over 6'3". Butler is 5'11". Those numbers don't work well.
First off, having a #1 cover corner doesn't mean he has to match up with the best receiver. It also allows you to put him on the WR#2 while providing extra coverage and attention to the WR#1. It may also allow us to do the left/right corner system we've seen in the past
Second, the only corners who matchup with those guys are Peterson and Sherman, who have both been burnt by Jones. What corners in the draft are going to match up with those guys?
Third, we also have a physical corner in Delvin Breaux who has played well against Jones in the past. Even more of a reason imo, because it gives the defense options.
And while Jones was great last year, Sanu for Atlanta had the highest targeted passer rating in the NFL last year.
quote:
Byrd was a known commodity for Buffalo and a very different player for the Saints.
He immediately had to have surgery for the Saints. Butler is healthy, and we have a secondary coach as our DC.
This post was edited on 4/19/17 at 11:37 am
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