re: Zion&#39;s Skinny Cousin

Posted by shel311

McKinney, Texas

Member since Aug 2004

112648 posts

Posted on 8/21/24 at 10:41 am to Chalkywhite84

quote:
This one is different.

Look at that face.

We did say all the same things with allt eh same reasons last offseson too.

And much like last offseason, he also had pics where he looked very skinny, then pics from the same day in the same clothes that looked completely different and where he didn't remotely look as skinny to the point that if the "skinny" photo was never posted, no one would really even be commenting on how skinny he looks based on those other pics from the same day.

Maybe it is actually real this time, that's certainly possible. But everything we're seeing and saying was all similarly seen and said last offseason too.

And for the record, I'll gladly fall for it every offseason, that's what fans do lol.

Posted by NOSHAU

Member since Feb 2012

13492 posts

Posted on 8/21/24 at 12:00 pm to brmark70816

quote:

I don't understand these people. This is just pure ineptitude. They have no idea what they are doing. Why would he be so heavy?

Maybe they should hire you as the athletic trainer. Clearly you know more by looking at a number and a photo on the internet than all the professionals.

Posted by brmark70816

Atlanta, GA

Member since Feb 2011

11234 posts

Posted on 8/21/24 at 3:03 pm to NOSHAU

quote:
Clearly you know more by looking at a number and a photo on the internet than all the professionals.

What professionals? You and a few guys on this site?

There is not one credible person that endorses Zion's current size or his "goal" weight (272). I'll wait while you find some professional that will back whatever you are trying to say..

quote:
Maybe they should hire you as the athletic trainer.

They need to hire someone that can actually talk some sense into him, to show him the error in his beliefs..

Posted by NOSHAU

Member since Feb 2012

13492 posts

Posted on 8/21/24 at 5:12 pm to brmark70816

quote:
There is not one credible person that endorses Zion's current size or his "goal" weight (272). I'll wait while you find some professional that will back whatever you are trying to say..

So, the athletic training staff and his personal trainers are less credible and qualified that you? How many times have you personally examined him and his workouts as well as analyzed his body makeup? You are simply a person on a chat board looking at a photo and a number. You lost your mind when you read what his dad said only because you did not like the number (regardless of the photos). You may not be the all knowing athletic expert that you think you are.

Posted by brmark70816

Atlanta, GA

Member since Feb 2011

11234 posts

Posted on 8/21/24 at 6:01 pm to NOSHAU

quote:
So, the athletic training staff and his personal trainers are less credible and qualified that you?

If they are pushing for him to play that heavy or believe that is as light as he can get, then yes, they do not know what they are doing.

I have never seen anyone endorse or support him targeting that size/weight. That includes anyone from the team or trainers.

quote:
You are simply a person on a chat board looking at a photo and a number. You lost your mind when you read what his dad said only because you did not like the number (regardless of the photos).

I have consistently said the same thing for 5 years. I have never wavered. He is too heavy.

I "lost my mind", cause he just wasted another offseason. He wants to be heavy and isn't trying to lose weight or size.

quote:
You may not be the all knowing athletic expert that you think you are.

This isn't coming from me. This is from any person with knowledge. It's not my opinion. It's a fact. It's a ticking time bomb.

Posted by htran90

Member since Dec 2012

31995 posts

Posted on 8/21/24 at 8:36 pm to brmark70816

He was too heavy. His lift was gone. He needed to put substantially more force into his legs to get the same lift as an effortless Duke zion did and we saw what happened. Hamstring injury. Boom.

But I don't agree on how is this a wasted offseason though? He's by all accounts is on pace to lose at least 20-30lbs. You can't expect him to go from 290-300 down to 250 in 6 months. We're talking a 2lb/week loss whole trying to match his training he needs to keep up his stamina and strength too - it's too much in a short time.

I expect, the goal is year is 270 and to maintain that weight without gaining 20lbs, with plans to getting rid of 10-20 more next year that's the kind of gradual change you want. That's more sustainable long term anyway and doesn't sacrifice his strength in the process.

Posted by brmark70816

Atlanta, GA

Member since Feb 2011

11234 posts

Posted on 8/21/24 at 9:39 pm to htran90

quote:
But I don't agree on how is this a wasted offseason though? He's by all accounts is on pace to lose at least 20-30lbs.

This is the miscommunication. How heavy was he at the end of last season? By his contract, he couldn't be over 300. Now he's 281, supposedly. So he lost 20ish lbs in over 4 months. He's lost that in less than a month previously.

The guy from NC State lost 45lbs in 3 months. It's not hard for 300lb guys to lose weight. My point is they (him and his camp) don't want him lighter. They want him at 270+. They think that's his prime weight.

quote:
expect, the goal is year is 270 and to maintain that weight without gaining 20lbs, with plans to getting rid of 10-20 more next year that's the kind of gradual change you want. That's more sustainable long term anyway and doesn't sacrifice his strength in the process.

I wish this was true, but there is no evidence of that. We all saw interviews last offseason. He stated then he was focused on flexibility. It doesn't take two years. This is where he wants to be. They are proud and believe they did a good job.

Posted by Stamps74

Member since Nov 2017

1392 posts

Posted on 8/22/24 at 5:54 am to GOP_Tiger

Are we the only current franchise who spends this much time debating our “star” players weight? Maybe Dallas with Luka …

Posted by brmark70816

Atlanta, GA

Member since Feb 2011

11234 posts

Posted on 8/22/24 at 7:22 am to Stamps74

quote:
Are we the only current franchise who spends this much time debating our “star” players weight? Maybe Dallas with Luka …

We are just closer to it and it seems more prominent cause it's been dragging on for years. But it's a topic in a lot of places. I know Embiid has caught a lot of flack about his conditioning ans size.

The Luka one is interesting cause it's so evident that when he's lean, he's a killer. But if he showed up for camp this season after adding 30lbs of muscle, would people be excited or confused? Would the additional mass help him or hurt his game?

Posted by htran90

Member since Dec 2012

31995 posts

Posted on 8/22/24 at 7:47 am to brmark70816

quote:
This is the miscommunication. How heavy was he at the end of last season? By his contract, he couldn't be over 300. Now he's 281, supposedly.

The team has an option to decrease his guarantee money if he goes over 295 (combined weight & fat%). They can say, you know we saw a commitment from him last year, we're both in a good spot right now, lets not rock the boat and mutually agree that he keeps doing what he's doing (this offseason for example) we can ignore it.

quote:
So he lost 20ish lbs in over 4 months. He's lost that in less than a month previously.

Seriously ask yourself this question, 20lbs over 4 months (Lets say 1-1.5lb/week) vs 20lbs over 1 month. (4-5lbs/week)

What's more sustainable? What's actually healthier?

quote:
The guy from NC State lost 45lbs in 3 months. It's not hard for 300lb guys to lose weight. My point is they (him and his camp) don't want him lighter. They want him at 270+. They think that's his prime weight.

Initial point, DJ Burns and Zion are in two different situations and two different people.

Burns was straight up obese in the tournament and lost 45lbs in an effort to drop to the listed "275" he was at during the season or what NC State listed him as --- to get an NBA combine invite because EVERYONE was talking about him being out of shape and fat. That means he was 320lbs (at least). The difficulty isn't losing the weight as much as how to lose it.

Now to Zion's point, if he were to lose 20lbs in 1 month vs 6 months, he'd lose fat and muscle mass due to the rapid loss. This has been WELL studied in nutrition and a big issue with GLP-1s for people with rapid weight loss --- needing to dial it back in dosage for example.

They may feel 270 is his prime weight, we'll see soon enough if it is. You act as if this is a set stone decision. They obviously thought him being at 295 combined weight & fat% was okay, until it wasn't. Players will need to adjust. LeBron for example bulked up in early cleveland-Miami days, then realized as he got older he needed to shed the weight in his 2nd stint in cleveland and now with the LA lakers.

quote:
I wish this was true, but there is no evidence of that. We all saw interviews last offseason. He stated then he was focused on flexibility. It doesn't take two years. This is where he wants to be. They are proud and believe they did a good job.

And you don't think he's doing a better job than he ever has? It doesn't take 2 years, but if someone doesn't give a frick it sure can.

Both things can be true that he and his camp thought it wasn't an issue for the past 2 years, hell you can say it wasn't an issue in his ENTIRE pelicans tenure.

Yet constant weight issues and repeated injuries may have finally caught up and they realize "oh frick, maybe the team was right and we were wrong" leading to this kind of realization he needs to take his health seriously.

You can't say that at any point from NBA draft to now, Zion has looked remotely this good, this healthy, and this slim as a Pelican.

Now we could all be fools and believe he's commited, but the reality is a sustained weight loss and weight management method is better than fasting and sharp decline in weight. That is just facts.

Posted by brmark70816

Atlanta, GA

Member since Feb 2011

11234 posts

Posted on 8/22/24 at 8:11 am to htran90

quote:
Seriously ask yourself this question, 20lbs over 4 months (Lets say 1-1.5lb/week) vs 20lbs over 1 month. (4-5lbs/week)

For normal people, the later is better. They need to go slower.

For the obese, the first. They need to shed weight quickly to get back into a safe range. It's much more difficult to go from 250 to 225, than 300 to 250. At 250+, he can easily maintain a 1000 calorie deficit, while hitting all his macros, including surpassing his protein target.

quote:
Now to Zion's point, if he were to lose 20lbs in 1 month vs 6 months, he'd lose fat and muscle mass due to the rapid loss. This has been WELL studied in nutrition and a big issue with GLP-1s for people with rapid weight loss --- needing to dial it back in dosage for example.

It wouldn't have to be that extreme. I believe he could safely lose 8-10lbs a month. So in a 6 month offseason, 40-50lbs is realistic. Especially is he is 300lbs or more.

quote:
And you don't think he's doing a better job than he ever has? It doesn't take 2 years, but if someone doesn't give a frick it sure can.

I don't know. They are cryptic on the messaging and we only get glimpses. I can only go with what they are saying. They are targeting his weight at 270+lbs for the season. That is the goal. That is too heavy, and he could have been lighter. It's a choice. It's intentional.

quote:
Now we could all be fools and believe he's commited, but the reality is a sustained weight loss and weight management method is better than fasting and sharp decline in weight. That is just facts.

I do not agree in all cases. There are programs that accelerate progress. That is why boxers go to a training camp or prospects go to specialized trainers in remote locations. They have goals and traditional training does not get it done fast enough. I hope he's doing more than following a diet and going to the gym. He should have many, many more tools (plus supplementation) to accomplish his goals.

Posted by MizunoDude

Member since May 2020

1114 posts

Posted on 8/22/24 at 9:07 am to YungBuck

Until he inevitably gets hurt….and he will