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Started By
Message
re: Zion plus 26 tonight
Posted on 12/12/23 at 10:45 am to NOSHAU
Posted on 12/12/23 at 10:45 am to NOSHAU
quote:Odd you say this as you're the one arguing in bad faith. You didn't even attempt to tell me which of those stats you disagree with. Please quote and tell me where I was wrong.
You cherry pick all the time.
quote:Wait, you don't agree that Zion is very athletic and also out of shape? Seriously, you don't agree with that/
You talk about his athleticism and then complain he is too fat.
quote:Again, I'm going to keep calling it out, you are refusing to argue facts.
You say he should be a rebounding and block machine because of his size, yet he is 6'6" playing the 4
I'll ask again, are YOU arguing that Zion's rebounding and blocked shots are acceptable and what you expect from him, yes or no?
quote:Power Forwards, all of them?
How many great offensive players his size average more than 6 rebounds a game
quote:How many have only 6 blocks this season as a power forward? Feel free to answer directly...
and block a lot of shots
quote:We've been better all season when Zion is off the court, and we lose minutes when he plays. Care to comment on that directly?
You cherry pick 3 games that he did not score much
quote:It's also the second time we've had the Zion "wake up call." it seems like you got burned the first time but are willing to blindly put all your faith back in him again. I will not do that. I will not assume the problem is solved and Zion is going to get in tip top shape and give great effort going forward, why would I? Feel free to answer that directly...
This is the second time that there has been a hint to "taking a backseat" in this offense.
2
Posted on 12/12/23 at 10:47 am to shel311
quote:
They won't ever be so gassed that they play under 30 minutes 4 games straight
He didn't play under 30 minutes because he was gassed. He didn't play over 30 minutes last night because he was in better shape. That is just such a lazy and ignorant take. He didn't miraculously get in shape for the Bulls game in the middle of that 4 game stretch. His minutes this season are down. I 100% believe that is an organizational decision to "load manage."
Zion was awful in the Lakers game. So was most of the team. He deserves criticism for that game. He is our best player and has to set the tone. Zion needs to get better at some things, including playing with a higher motor. But to act like he is an awful player who never cares is such an overreaction.
Posted on 12/12/23 at 10:48 am to shel311
All im saying is that if he wants to be the best and get people off his back, he has to get in better shape and play both sides of the court.
Feel free to defend him, but he's considered a franchise player, paid like one, but doesn't play like one night in and night out. Basketball players take nights off, rest, etc. He does it way too often.
Feel free to defend him, but he's considered a franchise player, paid like one, but doesn't play like one night in and night out. Basketball players take nights off, rest, etc. He does it way too often.
Posted on 12/12/23 at 10:48 am to NOSHAU
quote:Do you think Zion gives effort at rebounding, yes or no?
Define acceptable.
quote:We comparing Zion rebounding to Lillard now?
Does Booker, Harden, Lillard, etc.?
Friendly reminder that CJ McCollum has a higher defensive rebounding % than Zion. Feel free to comment directly on why you think that is if Zion is out there giving max effort to rebound the ball..
quote:Do you think his defense would suffer less if he was a professional who took his job seriously and was in the conditioning he should be in? Or do you disagree with literally everyone and think Zion is in good shape and conditioning?
He exerts a lot of energy on the offensive end, admittedly due to the style of his game. For that, his defense does suffer
quote:I'm asking him to be in shape for his job and to not be the dude giving the least amount of effort on the team...is that too much to ask for? Feel free to answer that directly...
Are you asking him to change his entire style of play to please you?
Posted on 12/12/23 at 10:49 am to NOSHAU
quote:So it's ok for you to claim you know the exact reason, but it's not ok for me to? That's your argument now?
So you know exactly why he did not take many shots in those games?
You're just arguing in bad faith.
You've yet to give a direct answer to anything I've said, any fact I've pointed out. You just keep deflecting.
You seem to be the only person in the world who thinks Zion is in good shape and giving great effort out there, and you just deflect from any points to the contrary so you don't have to admit that he's not.
This post was edited on 12/12/23 at 10:53 am
Posted on 12/12/23 at 10:50 am to GynoSandberg
quote:Bingo
Suggesting they sucked bc they were partying or the financial benefit wasn’t enough isn’t an excuse, it’s the exact problem
The same dude that is taking exception with saying Zion is out of shape and lacking effort is also saying Zion partied so much in Vegas that he wasn't ready for the biggest game of his career and using that as an argument FOR Zion
Posted on 12/12/23 at 11:02 am to shel311
Zion is 181st in blocked shots behind Cam Thomas and 110th in defensive rebounding % behind Kyle Lowry and Chris Paul.
If we can't call out Zion for being poor at these 2 things, then what are we even doing right now?
To argue he's doing those things at an adequate rate and to get snippy with anyone who disagrees is wild.
If we can't call out Zion for being poor at these 2 things, then what are we even doing right now?
To argue he's doing those things at an adequate rate and to get snippy with anyone who disagrees is wild.
Posted on 12/12/23 at 11:04 am to shel311
big problem on this board: too many people trying to be the hall monitor of people's thoughts/opinions/ and emotions.
Posted on 12/12/23 at 11:08 am to Chad504boy
quote:Telling people to go root for another team if they don't have 100% trust that Zion is going to give max effort going forward is a wild thing to say if you've watched Pels games this season.
big problem on this board: too many people trying to be the hall monitor of people's thoughts/opinions/ and emotions.
Posted on 12/12/23 at 11:20 am to shel311
Yeah I don't understand why anyone is acting like things are fixed with Zion, even Zion was acting like things aren't fixed after the game
Posted on 12/12/23 at 11:54 am to whatiknowsofar
This board just doesnt get that he isnt great yet, and even players who average 30pts a game have bad nights.
Kid is scoring 23 a game. That means some nights he wont have more than 20 pts.
Kid is scoring 23 a game. That means some nights he wont have more than 20 pts.
Posted on 12/12/23 at 11:59 am to paulbeasy
quote:He's a much lesser player in year 5 than he was in year 2.
This board just doesnt get that he isnt great yet, and even players who average 30pts a game have bad nights.
Kid is scoring 23 a game. That means some nights he wont have more than 20 pts.
Is that truly of zero concern whatsoever to you?
Posted on 12/12/23 at 1:22 pm to ghost2most
quote:
He actually looked less fat. How the frick a guy can look different in less than a week good or bad I'll never understand but he looked 10 lbs lighter at least.
He looked the same. This board has a nasty habit of convincing itself that Zion looks skinnier when he has a good game (like last night) or a bunch of reports come out that he had been putting in offseason work (this past offseason). In reality, he has looked pretty much the same for the past 3 seasons, chunky, doughy and not much arm definition.
Even in his rookie season, while he looked skinnier than he does now, it's still a world away from how he looked at Duke, which is crazy because it was only one year apart and you'd think with the equipment and training programs that are available to an NBA player compared to college, that'd be impossible.
Posted on 12/12/23 at 1:39 pm to Broski
Yeah I don’t completely agree with that. I think Zion’s main problems is he constantly fluctuates in weight. This time last year he looked substantially different- he didn’t look chunky, doughy at all. I don’t think arm definition matters- kind of a silly thing to harp on.
I don’t know why people are obsessed with him looking like he was at Duke. Nobody was clamoring Shaq and Chuck to look like they looked like at LSU and Auburn. To me yes he needs to lose weight, get in shape and stay healthy. Again, if he can be in the same shape as last year and perform at that MVP type level- thats all thats needed for us to be title contenders. But likely for some people that won’t be enough either.
I don’t know why people are obsessed with him looking like he was at Duke. Nobody was clamoring Shaq and Chuck to look like they looked like at LSU and Auburn. To me yes he needs to lose weight, get in shape and stay healthy. Again, if he can be in the same shape as last year and perform at that MVP type level- thats all thats needed for us to be title contenders. But likely for some people that won’t be enough either.
Posted on 12/12/23 at 1:45 pm to Pels_Yaz
quote:
This time last year he looked substantially different- he didn’t look chunky, doughy at all. I don’t think arm definition matters- kind of a silly thing to harp on.
You completely misunderstood the tone or point of that.
I'm not harping on it, just pointing out obvious things that are noticeable when it comes to body shape.
quote:
This time last year he looked substantially different- he didn’t look chunky, doughy at all.
If you want to compare picture from last year, be my guest.
quote:
I don’t know why people are obsessed with him looking like he was at Duke.
It's not an obsession, but it's a data point to show that his conditioning has gone completely the opposite way since joining the NBA.
quote:
Nobody was clamoring Shaq and Chuck to look like they looked like at LSU and Auburn
Chuck was always fat, even at Auburn. Terrible comparison.
Shaq was at his peak physical form when he was in Orlando, running the floor and everything. It wasn't until he got to LA where he started to lose his slenderness. And that's because he was 7'1 and was told to add more weight. Totally different body type. Again, terrible comparison.
This post was edited on 12/12/23 at 1:46 pm
Posted on 12/12/23 at 1:58 pm to Broski
quote:
In reality, he has looked pretty much the same for the past 3 seasons, chunky, doughy and not much arm definition.
This is literally what you said which is not true based off last year. What is your tone or point? That hes looked exactly the same the past 3 seasons- thats part of the problem and why fans get frustrated because he has shown he can be in shape while with pels. You can google pictures yourself or watch highlights and see hes in completely different shape last year. Its pretty apparent.
Its a data point- yeah ok. Kind of hard to use data points when you have no idea what his exact weight, BMI was at Duke. Your talking data points and then using visuals as chunky, doughy, and arm definition. Therefore all your saying is he looks like hes not in the same shape as Duke- yeah we know but he’s shown he can be a mvp candidate shape as well so why does this matter?
When was Shaq told to add more weight lol? By who?
Posted on 12/12/23 at 2:03 pm to Pels_Yaz
In fairness, maybe not you but it seems the general train of thought as that Zion got hurt playing 3 games in 4 nights carrying the load for the team in part because he wasn't in the best possible physical shape he should have been in. It seems that thought is kind of changing from where most everyone said that last season, and now people are saying he was in good shape last season.
Was he in better shape last season than he is right at this moment? Sure seems like it. Was in the right shape and conditioning he should have been in or the best he could have been in last season? No chance.
Was he in better shape last season than he is right at this moment? Sure seems like it. Was in the right shape and conditioning he should have been in or the best he could have been in last season? No chance.
This post was edited on 12/12/23 at 2:25 pm
Posted on 12/12/23 at 2:16 pm to shel311
I can see that. He hurt his hamstring last year which happens to the healthiest of athletes quite often. His issue last year was he couldn’t keep up his conditioning while rehabbing which probably made him reinjure it and he couldn’t return.
I get it people want him to be at the absolute peak condition he can be in. I guess I’m a little more realistic- if he can play and be the condition he was in last year while avoiding any major injuries that basically makes us a contender. Then you just pray and hope, at some point in the offseason he decides to lose major weight and even if he doesn’t he just stays healthy and continues to perform at a high level.
I get it people want him to be at the absolute peak condition he can be in. I guess I’m a little more realistic- if he can play and be the condition he was in last year while avoiding any major injuries that basically makes us a contender. Then you just pray and hope, at some point in the offseason he decides to lose major weight and even if he doesn’t he just stays healthy and continues to perform at a high level.
Posted on 12/12/23 at 2:41 pm to shel311
(no message)
This post was edited on 12/12/23 at 2:49 pm
Posted on 12/12/23 at 2:43 pm to Chad504boy
(no message)
This post was edited on 12/12/23 at 2:48 pm
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