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1
Posted on 3/12/17 at 12:05 am to touchdownjeebus
Being the lesser of two evils doesn't make Monty a good head coach. He was awful.
Posted on 3/12/17 at 2:23 am to TotesMcGotes
quote:explain
He was awful
Posted on 3/12/17 at 3:29 am to TotesMcGotes
quote:This. I don't understand how Gentry being shitty makes Monty's tenure here suddenly not shitty. They can both be shitty coaches. That is possible and most likely true.
Being the lesser of two evils doesn't make Monty a good head coach. He was awful.
I say this as one of the last people on this board to get on the fire Monty train and as someone who liked the Gentry hire at first, mainly because the experts that I respect seemed to love the hire and he seemed to be a good fit for how our roster was constructed at the time.
Posted on 3/12/17 at 3:36 am to TotesMcGotes
My opinion of Monty has never changed. I think he was a good coach that got a raw deal. He got a GM that built a roster made to do the complete opposite of his style. He got an injury prone team to mesh on the go and made the playoffs. He was not without flaws. His rotations were sometimes awful and it was infuriating to see us go toe to toe with the best teams one night and lose to terrible ones another but it was his first head coaching gig so i expected some growing pains. I don't know his ceiling as a coach but i thought he earned another season.
Posted on 3/12/17 at 9:33 am to hugo_boss
quote:
Being the lesser of two evils doesn't make Monty a good head coach. He was awful.
He wasn't awful. He wasn't a top tier coach, but did a good job with what he had to work with. Much better than Gentry. Gentry is bad and not what this team needs.
Posted on 3/12/17 at 10:13 am to Suntiger
quote:
did a good job with what he had to work with. Much better than Gentry
this thread is still hilarious.
they had a 2 month stretch where they played quality ball. that coincided with Norris Cole shooting out his mind and having a live 3/D player also shooting out of his mind. obviously great coaching to have 2 rotation players shoot better than they ever have
the PTAO was invented for Monty teams. Gentry w/ Holiday this year before Boogie? 21-21. they are roughly the same guy. Gentry isn't great. Monty wasn't great. they both have done dumb things. so do all coaches.
fans just want to bitch when their team loses, have no real critique other than feelings, so the coach is the cause of all issues. if they could just find the right coach, they would be a 50 win team
Posted on 3/12/17 at 10:23 am to corndeaux
quote:
the PTAO was invented for Monty teams. Gentry w/ Holiday this year before Boogie? 21-21. they are roughly the same guy. Gentry isn't great. Monty wasn't great. they both have done dumb things. so do all coaches.
And they were trending up with the small ball. I'm convinced they'd be within a game of the 8 seed if they hadn't made the trade.
Posted on 3/12/17 at 10:30 am to Let Me Take A Selfie
Monty's offense often devolved into Tyreke dribbling the ball and starting the play with 8 seconds left on the clock.
He was a defensive coach whose defense was atrocious.
You think people hate Gentry's rotations? It's nothing compared to Monty.
He was a defensive coach whose defense was atrocious.
You think people hate Gentry's rotations? It's nothing compared to Monty.
Posted on 3/12/17 at 11:21 am to corndeaux
quote:
fans just want to bitch when their team loses, have no real critique other than feelings, so the coach is the cause of all issues. if they could just find the right coach, they would be a 50 win team
What's the Pelicans record with Carlisle this year assuming the same exact health, just for fun?
Posted on 3/12/17 at 11:38 am to ShamelessPel
for fun...
Carlisle is one of the true and few difference makers at HC in the league. He also gets to work as a partner with a FO/owner to find guys to fit his system.
It's never in isolation. For instance, how did the Carlisle do adapting Rondo to the Mavs?
So, yes, the Pels are better with Carlisle. 50 wins? I doubt it. A roster is still a roster
More relevant what if, what's the record w/ :averageNBAcoach:? Is it demonstrably better?
ETA- and again, pre Boogie with Holiday playing, the Pels were a .500 team. Nothing to beat chests about, but right in line with expectations. The problem was Holiday missed the first dozen games and they were 2-10, which was expected considering the roster and it's holes
Carlisle is one of the true and few difference makers at HC in the league. He also gets to work as a partner with a FO/owner to find guys to fit his system.
It's never in isolation. For instance, how did the Carlisle do adapting Rondo to the Mavs?
So, yes, the Pels are better with Carlisle. 50 wins? I doubt it. A roster is still a roster
More relevant what if, what's the record w/ :averageNBAcoach:? Is it demonstrably better?
ETA- and again, pre Boogie with Holiday playing, the Pels were a .500 team. Nothing to beat chests about, but right in line with expectations. The problem was Holiday missed the first dozen games and they were 2-10, which was expected considering the roster and it's holes
This post was edited on 3/12/17 at 11:42 am
Posted on 3/13/17 at 1:58 am to TotesMcGotes
All those negatives yet they finished with 45 wins. People only mention his negatives but look at that roster and the injuries that he overcame and tell me he didn't do a hell of a job. It was rarely pretty but we were trending up. People keep saying that average coaches don't move the w/l meter. How is it that Monty took this team to 45 wins and Gentry took a similar team to 30? I won't knight Monty like he is Phil. I don't know what he could have done with this team but it is strange that an average coach gets replaced with another average coach yet the team plummets.
Posted on 3/13/17 at 9:16 am to THRILLHO
Monty isn't coming to the franchise that let him go after saying if he made the playoffs he would be safe and put him in a city where he had his tragic ordeal. It would be too traumatic for him.
Posted on 3/13/17 at 9:22 am to hugo_boss
quote:
it is strange that an average coach gets replaced with another average coach yet the team plummets.
Not all "average" coaches are created equal. Just because Gentry sucks more than Monty did, that doesn't make Monty a good coach.
Posted on 3/13/17 at 10:01 am to hugo_boss
2 things here:
You can think the organization was dumb to fire Monty after reports indicated playoffs or bust, that Monty did a nice job, AND still think Monty was mediocre as HC
2015 and 2016 Pels aren't the same team.
It's fascinating- for all the bitching people do after each and every game, all anyone remembers is W/L. No one is talking about Monty dropping games to PHI and NYK (combined 35 wins) in one week that year. Or how home fans were heckling at games. Or his g3 collapse v GS, which had almost everyone ready to run him out of town.
And that's fine- judge based on W/L. But, like Totes said, let's not pretend like this board wasnt the same disaster zone we see now after every loss under Monty. It was and it always will be every time the Pels lose
You can think the organization was dumb to fire Monty after reports indicated playoffs or bust, that Monty did a nice job, AND still think Monty was mediocre as HC
2015 and 2016 Pels aren't the same team.
It's fascinating- for all the bitching people do after each and every game, all anyone remembers is W/L. No one is talking about Monty dropping games to PHI and NYK (combined 35 wins) in one week that year. Or how home fans were heckling at games. Or his g3 collapse v GS, which had almost everyone ready to run him out of town.
And that's fine- judge based on W/L. But, like Totes said, let's not pretend like this board wasnt the same disaster zone we see now after every loss under Monty. It was and it always will be every time the Pels lose
Posted on 3/13/17 at 10:07 am to TotesMcGotes
quote:
Not all "average" coaches are created equal. Just because Gentry sucks more than Monty did, that doesn't make Monty a good coach.
Gentry is not an average coach, though.
Posted on 3/13/17 at 10:23 am to Jester
Monty's rotations got him fired. Maybe he has learned from that, but he needed to go. Gentry has not worked out either. Is what it is.
Posted on 3/13/17 at 10:43 am to Jester
Hence the quotes.
Neither of them are.
Neither of them are.
Posted on 3/13/17 at 11:40 am to corndeaux
quote:
It's fascinating- for all the bitching people do after each and every game, all anyone remembers is W/L. No one is talking about Monty dropping games to PHI and NYK (combined 35 wins) in one week that year. Or how home fans were heckling at games. Or his g3 collapse v GS, which had almost everyone ready to run him out of town.
This is just completely false. It is in fact the opposite. I, even as a Monty supporter, stated all of his negatives and weaknesses. Most of this board, including you in your post, only bring up the negatives. Most including you overlook the injuries and shifting roster that didn't stop him from doing the most important thing a coach can do. Win.
I have never claimed Monty was some savant. I thought he was upgradable at that time and I wanted Tom Thibodaux. Being upgradable doesn't make him a bad coach. The way many people talked about Monty you would think any idiot could have gotten this team to perform similarly and that has been proven false.
Posted on 3/13/17 at 12:13 pm to hugo_boss
quote:
This is just completely false
read this thread, brother. it's interesting how quickly many forget what they themselves said in the moment
quote:
ncluding you in your post, only bring up the negatives
??
quote:
You can think the organization was dumb to fire Monty after reports indicated playoffs or bust, that Monty did a nice job, AND still think Monty was mediocre as HC
my complaint isn't that people are stupid to like Monty. he was fine, but, like you say, upgradeable. more that amnesia seems to have set in here about how many thought/felt about Monty.
and, more to the point, finding a Pop or Carlisle is extremely hard. most coaches are mediocre. even the best ones aren't great in a vacuum but need cooperation between their style and FO, and most importantly, need talent to produce results.
the question becomes more about finding the best possible fit within what the organization is trying to do. very easy to argue Gentry is a bad fit because the parameters they had seemed to be
1) cheap
2) does not want player personnel control
3) plays fast
with those criteria, they were always going to find a lemon because it's not about actually doing the work to build a winner, but rather about covering asses
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