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re: Woj on Pels trade activity...
Posted on 1/8/18 at 1:47 pm to TeddyPadillac
Posted on 1/8/18 at 1:47 pm to TeddyPadillac
2012
16. Royce White
17. Tyler Zeller
18. Terrance Jones
19. Andrew Nicholson
20. Evan Fournier
2013
16. Lucas Nogueira
17. Dennis Schroder
18. Shane Larkin
19. Sergey Karasev
20. Tony Snell
2014
16. Nurkic
17. James Young
18. Tyler Ennis
19. Gary Harris
20. Bruno Caboclo
2015
16. Terry Rozier
17. Rashad Vaughn
18. Sam Dekker
19. Jerian Grant
20. Delon Wright
2016
16. Gerschon Yabusele
17. Wade Baldwin
18. Henry Ellenson
19. Malik Beasley
20. Caris Lavert
None of those guys did anything as a rookie, and most did very little as a 2nd year player. The ones that turned out good, took 3 years to get good, or they play on a really good team, like Rozier with Boston.
16. Royce White
17. Tyler Zeller
18. Terrance Jones
19. Andrew Nicholson
20. Evan Fournier
2013
16. Lucas Nogueira
17. Dennis Schroder
18. Shane Larkin
19. Sergey Karasev
20. Tony Snell
2014
16. Nurkic
17. James Young
18. Tyler Ennis
19. Gary Harris
20. Bruno Caboclo
2015
16. Terry Rozier
17. Rashad Vaughn
18. Sam Dekker
19. Jerian Grant
20. Delon Wright
2016
16. Gerschon Yabusele
17. Wade Baldwin
18. Henry Ellenson
19. Malik Beasley
20. Caris Lavert
None of those guys did anything as a rookie, and most did very little as a 2nd year player. The ones that turned out good, took 3 years to get good, or they play on a really good team, like Rozier with Boston.
Posted on 1/8/18 at 1:52 pm to TeddyPadillac
In my mind that is just bad scouting, gambling on potential and development. Plus that is an exaggeration, 1 in 5, I'd maybe say 50/50. But look back 6-7 seasons at picks 15-25. I can build just as good of a team off those picks as you could 1-10. Its a monumental mistake they haven't invested in youth and it going to come back to bite them someday very soon..
Posted on 1/8/18 at 2:17 pm to brmark70816
I agree with what you are saying.
Look at Toronto's recent picks in the 20's
OG, looks really good as a rookie.
Siakam, giving them 20 minutes a night in his 2nd year.
Delon Wright, also giving them a solid 20 minutes a night in his 3rd year.
Lucas Nogueira, giving them solid minutes off the bench the last 2 years.
They also found Fred Van Vleet, undrafted, to give them minutes and Norman Powell, 46th pick, is giving them really good minutes.
Their team this year is made up of only 3 guys they didnt' draft or obtain rights to, Lowry, Ibaka, and CJ Miles.
Must be nice.
That being said, i don't believe we can make the right pick, or that we can develop that pick b/c we are too busy trying to win now. We've seen our players leave and go elsewhere to develop b/c we weren't waiting around for it to happen.
We've also seen Dell find bench guys at the guard positions outside of the draft that have rounded out our roster.
I'm on board with trading the pick for a starter, or even a good role player like Carroll.
Look at Toronto's recent picks in the 20's
OG, looks really good as a rookie.
Siakam, giving them 20 minutes a night in his 2nd year.
Delon Wright, also giving them a solid 20 minutes a night in his 3rd year.
Lucas Nogueira, giving them solid minutes off the bench the last 2 years.
They also found Fred Van Vleet, undrafted, to give them minutes and Norman Powell, 46th pick, is giving them really good minutes.
Their team this year is made up of only 3 guys they didnt' draft or obtain rights to, Lowry, Ibaka, and CJ Miles.
Must be nice.
That being said, i don't believe we can make the right pick, or that we can develop that pick b/c we are too busy trying to win now. We've seen our players leave and go elsewhere to develop b/c we weren't waiting around for it to happen.
We've also seen Dell find bench guys at the guard positions outside of the draft that have rounded out our roster.
I'm on board with trading the pick for a starter, or even a good role player like Carroll.
Posted on 1/8/18 at 2:19 pm to NOFOX
quote:Agree. Trading the 1st for Carroll does not move the needle and does not solve our cap problems. Hard pass.
Exactly. I am 100% for staying the course right now. We made our bed. Trading the first for average players should only be reserved for two scenarios: (1) we were at risk of missing the playoffs, or (2) we could jump into the tier just below the real contenders. Neither of those situations have materialized, nor do they appear likely.
We should see what happens in the post-season, talk with Boogie's folks before the draft, and then decide what to do with the 1st.
Posted on 1/8/18 at 2:33 pm to TeddyPadillac
Smart drafting is the hallmark of every successful team. Demps and Monty Williams coming from the Spurs and not appreciating that stills shocks me. Being a small market team, it should have been something we embraced completely. But that's water under the bridge. Its not too late to change our habits..
Posted on 1/8/18 at 2:39 pm to NOSHAU
They think they could give Demarre away next year to avoid the tax, if it came to that. Harder to do with Asik/Ajinca
Posted on 1/8/18 at 2:41 pm to brmark70816
quote:
Demps and Monty Williams coming from the Spurs and not appreciating that stills shocks me.
Monty was with the Spurs for one season as an intern. If you look at who he chose and considered as his assistants, it was all former coaches and players from his time in Philly. His roots trace back to Larry Brown more than Pop. Although Pop is technically from the Larry Brown tree so there is some overlap there.
Demps, like Monty, seems to have a real aversion to risk. Most of the big moves he's made can be looked at as trading uncertainty for certainty. Even when he used the pick they went after proven over potential.
This post was edited on 1/8/18 at 2:44 pm
Posted on 1/8/18 at 3:11 pm to Crewz
Is Carroll someone who could improve the defence though?
On a side note, is Dedmon a guy who would improve interior defense?
On a side note, is Dedmon a guy who would improve interior defense?
Posted on 1/8/18 at 3:11 pm to TigerinATL
I thought Monty had a larger experience with the Spurs. I think I got that from him being their Vice President now. My fault. Point still stands though, especially with his mentoring reputation..
Posted on 1/8/18 at 3:20 pm to brmark70816
quote:
I thought Monty had a larger experience with the Spurs
So do most people. He was there as a player too and IIRC it was when he was a player that Pop might have suggested coaching one day to him, so there are definitely some Pop connections. However, his top 2 assistants were Larry Brown assistants from when he played for Larry Brown in Philly, and one of the other coaching candidates that was rumored under consideration was Eric Snow, a teammate from that Philly team. His steady vet that he brought in, Willie Green, played on that Philly team too.
This post was edited on 1/8/18 at 3:22 pm
Posted on 1/8/18 at 3:28 pm to Aussie_Pelican
quote:
Is Carroll someone who could improve the defence though?
On a side note, is Dedmon a guy who would improve interior defense
Absolutely.
He gives us actual size at the three and the defensive mentality of Hill but with better rebounding, shooting, and finishing.
Even at 31 he is still a well above average defender at that position and those are not easy to come by.
If we weren’t in the bind we were in because of past mistakes I wouldn’t like the risk but I think it is one of the smarter moves we could make. And unlike many past moves and their thought process, I think Crewz is right that you can likely move Carroll and his one year contract next season much easier than Asik or Ajinca if need arises.
This post was edited on 1/8/18 at 3:29 pm
Posted on 1/8/18 at 3:32 pm to Crewz
quote:
They think they could give Demarre away next year to avoid the tax, if it came to that. Harder to do with Asik/Ajinca
They think they could give away Demarre and take back no salary to avoid the tax, but shedding essetnially expiring Asik/Anjiica with a 1st is more difficult to do? That sounds like a questionable thought process especially considering they do not know yet whether they will even need to shed salary.
Posted on 1/8/18 at 3:35 pm to TeddyPadillac
Potential---the NBA and NBA fans love "potential". Never really gotta get, there just gotta have it
Posted on 1/8/18 at 3:39 pm to NOFOX
quote:
They think they could give away Demarre and take back no salary to avoid the tax,
No salary, no. Less salary, sure.
Posted on 1/8/18 at 3:45 pm to TeddyPadillac
quote:
No salary, no. Less salary, sure.
I don't see it being easier to move though. Carroll still has a $15M contract and teams with space are going to be limited. It would seem easier to have the flexibiltiy to move the $5M or the $11M (or both) expiring contracts with the first than Carroll's $15M with no assets.
This post was edited on 1/8/18 at 3:46 pm
Posted on 1/8/18 at 4:14 pm to NOFOX
quote:
I don't see it being easier to move though.
You'd have to find some sort of 3 way where Team B is willing to send an expiring and a 2nd to Team C with cap space who the Pels also send a 2nd to. Something like Carroll to Philly, Bayless and 2nds to Atlanta. And Philly doesn't really need Carroll unless they just want a veteran upgrade. It really would be hard to swing a 3 team deal, especially if you already used your 1st to turn Asik/Ajinca into Carroll.
Posted on 1/9/18 at 10:59 am to Crewz
quote:Risky assumption. He has not been the healthiest player and is aging. I would not want to give up our first and bank on this Demps' logic.
They think they could give Demarre away next year to avoid the tax, if it came to that. Harder to do with Asik/Ajinca
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