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re: Why are we so upset at this start?
Posted on 11/10/16 at 9:10 am to htran90
Posted on 11/10/16 at 9:10 am to htran90
I still don't get why you guys always stop at Dell as the main problem.
Even this summer, the board was bowing to the Ferry/Demps offseason for the most part. Buddy was beloved by 95%. I was murdered by almost everyone for hating the Hill deal
Moore was a good value, etc. This offseason was very Hawks-ish many said
Again, the issue is the direction/orders from the very top. And that ain't changing if you guys all get your wish and Dell/Gentry get fired.
In order of problems, it goes
1. Benson/Loomis
2. Voodoo curse
3. Dell
4. Gentry
Even this summer, the board was bowing to the Ferry/Demps offseason for the most part. Buddy was beloved by 95%. I was murdered by almost everyone for hating the Hill deal
Moore was a good value, etc. This offseason was very Hawks-ish many said
Again, the issue is the direction/orders from the very top. And that ain't changing if you guys all get your wish and Dell/Gentry get fired.
In order of problems, it goes
1. Benson/Loomis
2. Voodoo curse
3. Dell
4. Gentry
2
Posted on 11/10/16 at 9:16 am to Crewz
People blame Dell because he's the only fixable part.
Owner won't sell
Loomis won't get fired
Voodoo curses won't be lifted
So the next in line is the person who is supposedly making decisions or some at least... Which is dell.
This roster is flawed and has been even before Benson bought it so the only continuity has been dell. Offensively challenged outside of AD and Frazier, but when your next two offensive stars are out for a while you had to have known when you built that team in the offseason
Owner won't sell
Loomis won't get fired
Voodoo curses won't be lifted
So the next in line is the person who is supposedly making decisions or some at least... Which is dell.
This roster is flawed and has been even before Benson bought it so the only continuity has been dell. Offensively challenged outside of AD and Frazier, but when your next two offensive stars are out for a while you had to have known when you built that team in the offseason
Posted on 11/10/16 at 9:20 am to htran90
Yes, he is the biggest problem that is also fireable, but that doesn't mean we have to ignore where the TRUE problem lies
I truly believe if you remove Benson, put in an owner with deep pockets and a long term vision who gives Dell 5 years with no interference, Dell could build a contender
If you remove Dell and bring in any GM with Benson giving the same short term objectives he has given Dell, that GM wouldn't build a contender
GMs are at the mercy of their owners objectives. Could Dell have done better with the limitations? Definitely, which is why he is #3 on this list. But people are blind if they think he is the MAIN problem.
This franchise is doomed as long as Benson is a part of it
I truly believe if you remove Benson, put in an owner with deep pockets and a long term vision who gives Dell 5 years with no interference, Dell could build a contender
If you remove Dell and bring in any GM with Benson giving the same short term objectives he has given Dell, that GM wouldn't build a contender
GMs are at the mercy of their owners objectives. Could Dell have done better with the limitations? Definitely, which is why he is #3 on this list. But people are blind if they think he is the MAIN problem.
This franchise is doomed as long as Benson is a part of it
Posted on 11/10/16 at 9:24 am to Crewz
quote:
I truly believe if you remove Benson, put in an owner with deep pockets and a long term vision who gives Dell 5 years with no interference, Dell could build a contender
None of that's going to happen, and fans have absolutely zero control over that.
Dell can and will get fired so its something that we can actually talk about and put pressure on ownership about.
Posted on 11/10/16 at 9:33 am to Crewz
quote:
I truly believe if you remove Benson, put in an owner with deep pockets and a long term vision who gives Dell 5 years with no interference, Dell could build a contender
I find that hard to believe when he didn't do a good job at all prior to Benson.
I agree this whole short sighted idea was bad, but this offseason was about long term and it is bad as well
Posted on 11/10/16 at 9:37 am to Fun Bunch
Spoiler Alert- You have zero control over any of it
If we want to talk about the true problems, remove this illusion of control and let's talk about them. Again, Benson is the core problem. No, you can't change that. But you and I can't change anything
If we want to talk about the true problems, remove this illusion of control and let's talk about them. Again, Benson is the core problem. No, you can't change that. But you and I can't change anything
Posted on 11/10/16 at 9:48 am to Crewz
quote:
I still don't get why you guys always stop at Dell as the main problem.
Like htran said, there's no reason to expect things above Dell to change. I probably posted Loomis' name more than Demps/Gentry last season. Loomis is a serious impediment, Bill Parcells said he didn't get the interim head coaching job when Payton was suspended because "guys like him don't like guys like me." or something along those lines implying Loomis was scared of a guy that needs to be at the top of the power structure. Probably the best result than can come from another wasted season of AD is pressure mounting on the organization to replace Loomis with either Ferry or the JVG/Cal type that he's supposedly afraid of.
This post was edited on 11/10/16 at 9:49 am
Posted on 11/10/16 at 10:07 am to htran90
quote:
this offseason was about long term and it is bad as well
I am concerned about Hill panning out but I'm pretty happy with Moore. Unfortunately the stink of last season knocked the Pels down a peg or 2 in the FA market, so they really couldn't do anything much differently other than resign Ryno/Gordon which I wouldn't have wanted to do.
Posted on 11/10/16 at 10:08 am to TigerinATL
The way this works should be Loomis as an acting owner and that's all.
Nothing else, no say, just a person that sits there, nods, and updates Benson. That and focus on the Saints and let the front office and coaching staff run things, they're more qualified than him and he already has his plate full otherwise.
Nothing else, no say, just a person that sits there, nods, and updates Benson. That and focus on the Saints and let the front office and coaching staff run things, they're more qualified than him and he already has his plate full otherwise.
Posted on 11/10/16 at 10:33 am to htran90
quote:
The way this works should be Loomis as an acting owner and that's all.
Honestly I think that's all he's doing. He let Demps hire his own coach, gives him a budget to run the team with, and the moves made this year don't seem like one year payoff kind of moves.
If they knew about Holiday in June, then they knew before FA that they'd have AD and a bunch of role players for at least the first month of the season. Overpaying to keep Ryno instead of picking up Hill would have been the move to make if you are thinking about "how do I maximize the chances that I'm here next year." Replace Hill, Terrence Jones and Galloway with Ryno, Cunningham and a cheap SF Wesley Johnson type and this team might have had enough fire power to be 3-5 instead of 0-8.
I want Loomis out as POBO because not only is he not a basketball guy, but his day job limits his availability at key points of the season. But I don't think he's doing much meddling with something like a Playoffs or Bust mandate or the moves made this summer would have been different.
This post was edited on 11/10/16 at 10:35 am
Posted on 11/10/16 at 10:38 am to TigerinATL
Like I have said, I don't think any of these men are ideal. But I have seen this before
Raiders fans called for every coach over the last 15 years to be fired. Every executive too. But it was always an Al Davis issue. He passes away and the new GM takes a few years to get out from his mess, hires a very average coach in JDR, and all of a sudden they are very good with a very promising future
You guys can scream for Dell and Gentry's heads now. But you will just screaming for someone else's head in two to three years.
Raiders fans called for every coach over the last 15 years to be fired. Every executive too. But it was always an Al Davis issue. He passes away and the new GM takes a few years to get out from his mess, hires a very average coach in JDR, and all of a sudden they are very good with a very promising future
You guys can scream for Dell and Gentry's heads now. But you will just screaming for someone else's head in two to three years.
Posted on 11/10/16 at 11:09 am to Crewz
quote:
it was always an Al Davis issue.
But Al Davis had a history as a meddlesome owner, no? The reported Playoffs or Bust mandate that got Monty fired is less than ideal for a team trying to build around a young superstar. But the recent moves feel like moves made with less time pressure on them.
Posted on 11/10/16 at 11:39 am to TigerinATL
Davian was maybe the best owner in the NFL for 20-30 years. When his time was coming to an end, he saw his window closing and only did win now, stupid moves
Posted on 11/10/16 at 12:17 pm to Crewz
quote:
No expectations. Only way to go. It's hard, because as humans we are one of the only species that can project into the future. But resisting that ability is the key to happiness
If you want to troll about the Pelicans fine. If you want to live life as a desparate cynic, go for it. But seriously keep the lame philosphy/spiritualism that you have appropriated from the happiness gurus off this board. Go to the OT if you want to share your enlightenment, but it does not belong here.
Posted on 11/10/16 at 12:22 pm to NOFOX
Yes sir! Whatever you say goes!!
Posted on 11/10/16 at 2:11 pm to Crewz
quote:I don't believe that at all. I do agree that it may have been more difficult to achieve goals if given a difficult directive by the owner. However, given that, Demps has failed. I do not, for one minute, think that he is the first GM ever to have been given a "win now" directive. If he cannot do the job, he has to go. The owner is not going to sell the team just because an incompetent GM has failed. Move on to another GM that may be able to succeed.
I truly believe if you remove Benson, put in an owner with deep pockets and a long term vision who gives Dell 5 years with no interference, Dell could build a contender If you remove Dell and bring in any GM with Benson giving the same short term objectives he has given Dell, that GM wouldn't build a contender
This post was edited on 11/10/16 at 2:13 pm
Posted on 11/10/16 at 3:41 pm to NOSHAU
quote:
I don't believe that at all. I do agree that it may have been more difficult to achieve goals if given a difficult directive by the owner. However, given that, Demps has failed. I do not, for one minute, think that he is the first GM ever to have been given a "win now" directive. If he cannot do the job, he has to go. The owner is not going to sell the team just because an incompetent GM has failed. Move on to another GM that may be able to succeed.
All of this. Benson didn't force Dell to give out 30+/year to Asik/Ajinca/Hill in the last 2 offseasons as part of his "win now" mandate. Dell has gotten into bidding wars with himself and overpaid for mediocre talent recently. As such, he's also straight fricked us moving forward cause we have at least 2 more seasons of "30+/year to Asik/Ajinca/Hill". Not only has Dell sucked at doing what he was supposed to do, he has made the next guy's job infinitely harder to build something before AD gets to year 4.
Posted on 11/10/16 at 4:01 pm to Crewz
quote:
Raiders fans called for every coach over the last 15 years to be fired. Every executive too. But it was always an Al Davis issue. He passes away and the new GM takes a few years to get out from his mess, hires a very average coach in JDR, and all of a sudden they are very good with a very promising future
Right here is how I know you have no F'ing idea what you are talking about. Carry on.
Posted on 11/10/16 at 4:35 pm to Crewz
Lol you try so hard to convince yourself of the BS you spew on this board
Posted on 11/10/16 at 4:40 pm to htran90
quote:
The way this works should be Loomis as an acting owner and that's all.
of course. but there is more to it than just being "hands off"
are they investing/willing to pay for all the resources a GM/coach may need? staff, tech, analytics? if they aren't doing that, even the best GM/coach (which you probably won't have b/c you won't pay for them) will have difficulties.
this isn't to say Demps/Gentry are great and need more time. just that a switch doesn't fix these issues. nearly everyone thought Monty was the "worst ever." until they booted him and now there is a new "worst ever."
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