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re: Stein: Pels said to be 1 of teams willing to move out of top 10 for “win now” compensation
Posted on 6/20/22 at 9:14 am to shel311
Posted on 6/20/22 at 9:14 am to shel311
There are limits to that, actually.
Chicago owed a first to Orlando that would convey no earlier than 2023 at the time of the trade.
They subsequently traded their 2025 pick to San Antonio in August 2021 and that may still become a 2028 2nd if the team falls apart.
A huge arse TPE and some expirings likely worked out for us far better than a pick no sooner than four drafts from the trade date.
Chicago owed a first to Orlando that would convey no earlier than 2023 at the time of the trade.
They subsequently traded their 2025 pick to San Antonio in August 2021 and that may still become a 2028 2nd if the team falls apart.
A huge arse TPE and some expirings likely worked out for us far better than a pick no sooner than four drafts from the trade date.
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Posted on 6/20/22 at 10:03 am to shel311
It’s hard to even say the Graham trade was bad. It’s only been 1 year, he could play great with Zion or we could still get = value in a trade. Graham is a positive asset at 12 mil.
We didn’t get a 1st but we also didn’t keep a guy making 20 mil and only playing 35 games. IS Lonzo a positive asset with his contract? I’d say he breaks even at best. Also Graham is more clutch than Lonzo to this point.
That 8 mil also helped us bring Nance here. So it was really trading a 1st for Graham+Nance at Zo’s contract price.
We didn’t get a 1st but we also didn’t keep a guy making 20 mil and only playing 35 games. IS Lonzo a positive asset with his contract? I’d say he breaks even at best. Also Graham is more clutch than Lonzo to this point.
That 8 mil also helped us bring Nance here. So it was really trading a 1st for Graham+Nance at Zo’s contract price.
Posted on 6/20/22 at 10:05 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
He may not really get much run next year if Zion is healthy b/c we also have Nance. His value could plummet.
I realize this thread is a few days old, but I have a question about Hayes/Nance. I don't know basketball like most here, so bear with me please. If we move Hayes, who plays the 4 when Zion comes out? If that answer is Nance, who plays 5 when Jonas is out? Billy was unplayable late in the season and as I see it, the Pels don't have a viable backup 4 or 5 outside of Hayes and/or Nance.
Posted on 6/20/22 at 10:15 am to SaintEB
Nance can play the 4/5 if needed. Jax can play the 4 but he needs to be able to handle 5 this year or he may be gone. The reason he may be gone is because Murphy/ Herb can also play some 4 now.
So yes we need someone to step up at backup 5. If that’s not Hayes then we have a slight predicament.
So yes we need someone to step up at backup 5. If that’s not Hayes then we have a slight predicament.
Posted on 6/20/22 at 10:22 am to SaintEB
quote:
I realize this thread is a few days old, but I have a question about Hayes/Nance. I don't know basketball like most here, so bear with me please. If we move Hayes, who plays the 4 when Zion comes out? If that answer is Nance, who plays 5 when Jonas is out? Billy was unplayable late in the season and as I see it, the Pels don't have a viable backup 4 or 5 outside of Hayes and/or Nance.
I think you're talking about having to fill a very small number of minutes regardless who the answer to this question is.
You have 96 minutes total a night between the 4 and 5. The teams best players all played 34 minutes a night this past season. CJ, BI, Hart when he was here. So I think you can mark down about 34 minutes a night for Zion. Val played 30, and I don't see any reason he would play more or less than that, at least significantly. Once Nance got his feet under him he played about 21 minutes a night. So that puts you at 85 right there, give or take some fluctuation. That leaves you with about 11 minutes.
I think you could divy that up a bit. Trey Murphy is the obvious candidate to play a few minutes a night as a small ball stretch big, whether you want to call that the 4 or 5. I think Herb is a very good candidate, and probably played a little more "4" last season than people realize. Obviously we could draft someone that could play that role (Sochan!!) as well.
Posted on 6/20/22 at 10:23 am to GOP_Tiger
quote:
I would love to move up to get Ivey. I think that it would require a third team, though, because we want to spend picks, and Sacramento wants players. To make it work, we need to find a team that would like a future 1st that also has a player that Sacramento wants.
Yep.
But who are they really wanting us to go get for them?
Jerami Grant?
Caris LeVert?
OG?
I'm not sure what they are actually looking for. Do they want to keep Barnes, or do they want to upgrade him? Are they planning on running Sabonis at the 5? I think they were trying to move Holmes at the deadline, so i'm not sure what they are wanting.
I think giving up #8 and Jerami Grant or OG would be a lot to move up to #4, and that's assuming we could get one of those guys without giving up #8 to get them.
It doesn't really feel like they want to keep Barnes. I think they want to go younger. They say they want to win now, but i think what they mean is we want to win, but we also want guys that fit around Fox/Sabonis timeline. OG being 24 is who i think they really want to replace 30 year old Barnes, but that's a hard ask for us to get him. Could we get OG for 2 future firsts and Jax? Don't think the Raptors would like that though since they don't have a 1st this year. Would the Kings be ok with 2 future firsts and OG, and we send Jax/#8 to Raptors, maybe Barnes goes to Raptors as well?
Ideally, I'd like to see:
Cavs get DG and Pels 23rd 1st (top 10 protected). I think the Cavs would actually want DG.
Kings get #8, Jax, LeVert, Mil 25 1st. This hinges on how much they would like LeVert/Jax.
Pels get #4 and Barnes.
2 future firsts and Jax for Ivey/Barnes, seems a bit much, but if Ivey hits like you expect, then it could have been 4 future firsts and no one would care. If they think Ivey can be the 3rd running mate to BI/Zion for the future, then you do what you have to do to get him, and with CJ on the team to mentor him and provide the time to devolop under his wings, it's a perfect situation for us and him.
Posted on 6/20/22 at 10:25 am to SaintEB
quote:
If we move Hayes, who plays the 4 when Zion comes out? If that answer is Nance, who plays 5 when Jonas is out? Billy was unplayable late in the season and as I see it, the Pels don't have a viable backup 4 or 5 outside of Hayes and/or Nance.
I see Trey as more of a 4/5 and eventual finishing small ball 5.
This post was edited on 6/20/22 at 10:26 am
Posted on 6/20/22 at 10:30 am to TigerinATL
If Trey and Nance are fulfilling the 4/5 role, Jax becomes trade bait.
Jax is pretty much a 4 right now and between Zion, Trey, and Nance, we appear to have that covered.
Jax is pretty much a 4 right now and between Zion, Trey, and Nance, we appear to have that covered.
Posted on 6/20/22 at 10:35 am to teke184
I love how we are having trouble finding rotational minutes for these young players. That’s a good problem to have right now.
Posted on 6/20/22 at 10:38 am to supe12sta12z
Pretty much.
Hell of a change from the Dell Demps days where guys like Gustavo Ayon and a bunch of other castoffs were getting big minutes.
Hell of a change from the Dell Demps days where guys like Gustavo Ayon and a bunch of other castoffs were getting big minutes.
Posted on 6/20/22 at 10:41 am to teke184
quote:
If Trey and Nance are fulfilling the 4/5 role, Jax becomes trade bait.
If Graham and Jaxson aren't traded this offseason then I can see the minutes vary early to late like last season. An early season 2nd unit like:
Zion/Graham/Trey/Jaxson/Nance
Then a post trade deadline where Jose or Kira take Graham's minutes, assuming he doesn't play well enough to keep, and the #8 pick takes Jaxson's minutes, with Trey maybe sliding down to the 4 spot depending on who we drafted.
Posted on 6/20/22 at 11:01 am to CP3forMVP
quote:
I think you're talking about having to fill a very small number of minutes regardless who the answer to this question is
I see this point.
quote:
Trey Murphy is the obvious candidate to play a few minutes a night as a small ball stretch big, whether you want to call that the 4 or 5.
I guess I just saw Trey as getting minutes at the 3. I get that things will change a bit getting Zion back, I just don't quite see how the pieces fit yet. I need to watch more ball and listen to AD more.
Posted on 6/20/22 at 11:09 am to SaintEB
quote:
I guess I just saw Trey as getting minutes at the 3. I get that things will change a bit getting Zion back, I just don't quite see how the pieces fit yet. I need to watch more ball and listen to AD more.
Trey can play probably 2-4 right now, and in a few more years when he's stronger I expect him to be able to play small ball 5 and join the finishing lineup when JV isn't a good matchup. Some of the first comps people threw out once we actually saw Trey play was Robert Horry. Imagine Horry in today's NBA, he'd be a 4/5 today vs. the 3/4 he was in his era. It still seems crazy to me that Horry was a center in college and had to guard Shaq
Posted on 6/20/22 at 2:12 pm to TigerinATL
He what grew 3 or 4 inches during the year and they said he might not be done kinda crazy
Posted on 6/20/22 at 2:18 pm to TigerinATL
Problem with Murphy at the 5, same issue I have with Sochan, is can they be elite rim protectors, and Murphy I question how he will bang in the post.
Which is the secret quality that made Green so valuable defensively for so long. He can switch, bang, and protect the rim for extended periods of time and not lose defensive efficiency(actually improve it).
Which is the secret quality that made Green so valuable defensively for so long. He can switch, bang, and protect the rim for extended periods of time and not lose defensive efficiency(actually improve it).
Posted on 6/20/22 at 6:51 pm to CP3forMVP
I think Sengun had a great season as a 19 year old on a terrible, low iq team.
Go back and look at the first season of Sabonis and Jokic. Neither of them exactly screamed all star either.
The only thing that complicates the future all star selections is Jalen Green being a gunner and drafting Banchero who also is a bit of a gunner.
Sengun is in that unselfish Sabonis/Jokic mold though and it could all work out for them as a young trio.
Go back and look at the first season of Sabonis and Jokic. Neither of them exactly screamed all star either.
The only thing that complicates the future all star selections is Jalen Green being a gunner and drafting Banchero who also is a bit of a gunner.
Sengun is in that unselfish Sabonis/Jokic mold though and it could all work out for them as a young trio.
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