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re: SI’s latest mock, based on rumors and buzz, has Shaedon Sharpe falling to us at 8.
Posted on 6/6/22 at 1:43 pm to TeddyPadillac
Posted on 6/6/22 at 1:43 pm to TeddyPadillac
quote:
which is why i will keep saying that if we draft someone at the SG/SF position that can't get those 15 mpg, then he probably sucks,
And to me this is simply shortsighted.
If Sharpe falls to us, are you really going to declare him a bust if he doesn't play significant minutes year one(and maybe this is partly a difference of opinion on what constitutes "significant minutes" cause many of your examples I wouldnt call that) after missing all of college and being one of the youngest prospects on a team with the 10 man rotation largely figured out?
Not saying Sharpe or whoever cant find minutes, but your approach seems very closed minded. Anfernee Simons was the top SG coming out of High School for ESPN, struggled in college, barely saw the court for years, and is now a budding all star. Not every player follows the same trajectory and not every situation is transferrable. And someone like Sharpe falling to the Pelicans would be a very unique situation that none of your examples really fits a 1:1 comparison.
This post was edited on 6/6/22 at 1:48 pm
2
Posted on 6/6/22 at 1:47 pm to Bronc
There's a long line of guys that didn't contribute year 1 or 2 that did down the line.
Kobe Bryant played 15 minutes a game his rookie year.
Any player we pick should at least partially be based on long term vision, not necessarily what they can do this year.
Kobe Bryant played 15 minutes a game his rookie year.
Any player we pick should at least partially be based on long term vision, not necessarily what they can do this year.
Posted on 6/6/22 at 1:51 pm to Fun Bunch
If Sharpe is there at 8, it is God giving us a mulligan for passing on Garland at 4.
Posted on 6/6/22 at 1:53 pm to Fun Bunch
Yep, and to be very clear, I am NOT calling Sharpe Kobe, but Kobe may be a closer analogy than many.
Sharpe is essentially coming straight form High School, barely 19 years old, if he fell to the Pels would be going to a team that is basically already 10 deep(maybe more if Kira has progressed/we trade Graham for a rotation player or Graham bounces back), has deep playoff ambitions, and a well balanced roster.
Kobe was 11th in minutes his rookie year and only started due to injuries. Averaged just 15mpg...and that was Kobe.
Sharpe is essentially coming straight form High School, barely 19 years old, if he fell to the Pels would be going to a team that is basically already 10 deep(maybe more if Kira has progressed/we trade Graham for a rotation player or Graham bounces back), has deep playoff ambitions, and a well balanced roster.
Kobe was 11th in minutes his rookie year and only started due to injuries. Averaged just 15mpg...and that was Kobe.
Posted on 6/6/22 at 2:25 pm to Bronc
quote:
If Sharpe falls to us, are you really going to declare him a bust if he doesn't play significant minutes year one after missing all of college and being one of the youngest prospects on a team with the 10 man rotation largely figured out?
Yes, i would be pretty upset if we drafted Sharpe and he couldn't earn more minutes than Naji or Jax, and i love Naji.
and i'm not saying he has to play in 60 games and get 15mpg+_for it to be successful. Of course he's allowed to struggle. It's expected, but i also expect that struggle to play out in NBA games over time, not on the bench and the G-League. and no top 10 pick spends a minute in the G-League, unless they suck.
Trey only played in 62 games and 14mpg, but he averaged over 20mpg in his last 23 games, including the playoffs.
Cam Thomas on the other hand played in 67 games and 17mpg, but didn't play a minute in the playoffs.
quote:
Not saying Sharpe or whoever cant find minutes, but your approach seems very closed minded.
Well, it's been proven over and over again every single year. Rookies who are good enough will find a way onto the court no matter the situation they are in.
You bringing up an outlier in Simons is they rare exception, and calling him a budding all-star is a bit much. He played on a team full of guys that were barely even G-League players. Of course he looked great while his team lost every game, and he's in his 4th year. It is extremely rare to take that long to start being productive.
He's no different than Malik Beasley. He might be a good player in the future, but he's nothing more than a good role player or bench player, yet he's going to get paid this offseason b/c the NBA is so dumb, and Portland will regret their 4/$100M contract they give him.
and i love how you ask me to find all these rookies on playoff teams, and i do, and you just tell me not every situation is the same.
I don't know how many times i have to tell all of you, if you're good enough, you will play, and if you can't see that promise as a rookie to earn the minutes to get through the struggle, then the coaches simply don't think you're worth the time to invest in your future b/c they don't believe in you, and more often than not, they are right. The Celtics and their last 4 rookies are a prime example of that in Langford, Williams, Pritchard and Nesmith, and the Grizzlies have shown the same with Bane and Ziare the last 2 years.
The Heat found 12mpg in 56 games for undrafted Yurtseven this year, and he played in 9 of the playoff games. Achiuwa played 12 mpg in 62 games last year as a rookie.
Tyler Herro and Kendrick Nunn played huge minutes as rookies on a finals team, yet KZ was only able to find the court in 5 games and probably won't even be on a roster next year. That's the telling part in all of this. Langford and KZ don't play as rookies, yet other rookies drafted after them do on the same exact team.
Posted on 6/6/22 at 2:36 pm to Bronc
Im sorry but what a lazy comparison.
Chet/ Jabari/ Paolo all demonstrated their ability to dominate a higher level of competition.
Sharpe had an opportunity to show he can hang with the best college prospects and decided against it.
That's a red flag.
Chet/ Jabari/ Paolo all demonstrated their ability to dominate a higher level of competition.
Sharpe had an opportunity to show he can hang with the best college prospects and decided against it.
That's a red flag.
Posted on 6/6/22 at 2:39 pm to ned nederlander
Kobe dominated high school basketball at a level Shapre hasn't.
Kobe dominated both offensively and defensively, averaging 30.8 points, 12 rebounds, 6.5 assists, 4 steals, and 3.8 blocked shots.
Sharpe has shown offensive potential but was an absolute CONE on the defensive end. He should have dominated.
And Kobe was pick 13.
Kobe dominated both offensively and defensively, averaging 30.8 points, 12 rebounds, 6.5 assists, 4 steals, and 3.8 blocked shots.
Sharpe has shown offensive potential but was an absolute CONE on the defensive end. He should have dominated.
And Kobe was pick 13.
Posted on 6/6/22 at 2:43 pm to Kerchek
quote:
Im sorry but what a lazy comparison.
Chet/ Jabari/ Paolo all demonstrated their ability to dominate a higher level of competition.
Sharpe had an opportunity to show he can hang with the best college prospects and decided against it.
That's a red flag.
Comparison?
No one is trying to make a comparison.
I'm stating why Sharpe is not participating, its the same reason the rest aren't, they and their agents have decided the risks outweigh the benefits.
He is projected to fall no more than 8, there is literally no benefit to "show he can hang with the best college prospects" via the combine. The market has largely spoken and placed him better than all but 4-6 of his peers. There is little to gain and a ton to lose by further participation. And impressing forum dwellers that are looking for reasons to question him is a really poor counter argument. And to call doing what 99% of players would do in his situation, a red flag, is an incredibly weak indictment.
This post was edited on 6/6/22 at 2:46 pm
Posted on 6/6/22 at 2:44 pm to Kerchek
Kobe was in an era where fewer young players (HS, one and done guys) were drafted high and, in addition, was telling teams like the Nets that he would never play for them.
Guys like him and Kevin Garnett pretty much changed teams minds when it came to younger players getting drafted to the point where HS kids were getting drafted 1st overall by 2001.
These days, there are a ton of guys who would get drafted top 5 out of HS if the One And Done rule went away.
Guys like him and Kevin Garnett pretty much changed teams minds when it came to younger players getting drafted to the point where HS kids were getting drafted 1st overall by 2001.
These days, there are a ton of guys who would get drafted top 5 out of HS if the One And Done rule went away.
Posted on 6/6/22 at 2:54 pm to Bronc
"He is projected to fall no more than 8."
Projections mean nothing. If you're not a top 3 lock you should be fighting to become one.
If he's so confident in his skills and abilities why wouldn't he play in scrimmages and DOMINATE? That would GUARANTEE a top 4 selection.
The only reason he's slipping on boards now is because not only do we have little to zero film vs decent competition, but when GIVEN the OPPORTUNITY to play he turned it down.
IMO that's a losers mentality.
Projections mean nothing. If you're not a top 3 lock you should be fighting to become one.
If he's so confident in his skills and abilities why wouldn't he play in scrimmages and DOMINATE? That would GUARANTEE a top 4 selection.
The only reason he's slipping on boards now is because not only do we have little to zero film vs decent competition, but when GIVEN the OPPORTUNITY to play he turned it down.
IMO that's a losers mentality.
This post was edited on 6/6/22 at 2:59 pm
Posted on 6/6/22 at 2:55 pm to Bronc
quote:
He is projected to fall no more than 8, there is literally no benefit to "show he can hang with the best college prospects" via the combine. The market has largely spoken and placed him better than all but 4-6 of his peers.
He was projected in the top 4 by a bunch of mocks a couple of weeks ago, then started falling. Whatever he is doing now isn't working and he might fall out of the top 10. He is being picked apart and has no way to combat it. Maybe he has private workouts and blows some team away. Then still gets taken pretty high. Doesn't look like it right now though..
Posted on 6/6/22 at 2:58 pm to brmark70816
I don’t see a way the current top prospects (Smith, Banchero, Holmgren, Ivey) fall lower than 5.
Sharpe’s chances of getting into that range depend on Sacramento or Detroit wanting him OR a team being willing to trade up and get him.
As it stands, he likely falls simply because he has enough question marks that he isn’t a safe bet like most other top prospects.
He is the lottery scratcher of this draft. Potential jackpot, $2 winner, or Jack shite are all possible returns.
Sharpe’s chances of getting into that range depend on Sacramento or Detroit wanting him OR a team being willing to trade up and get him.
As it stands, he likely falls simply because he has enough question marks that he isn’t a safe bet like most other top prospects.
He is the lottery scratcher of this draft. Potential jackpot, $2 winner, or Jack shite are all possible returns.
Posted on 6/6/22 at 3:10 pm to Kerchek
quote:
Projections mean nothing. If you're not a top 3 lock you should be fighting to become one.
If he's so confident in his skills and abilities why wouldn't he play in scrimmages and DOMINATE? That would GUARANTEE a top 4 selection.
So by your logic, Jaden Ivey has a loser's mentality because he is projected to go anywhere from 4-6 and has not participated in the combine or scrimmages?
quote:
The only reason he's slipping on boards now is because not only do we have little to zero film vs decent competition, but when GIVEN the OPPORTUNITY to play he turned it down.
Reminder: Jeremy Woo is a writer, one amongst many, and is not a GM. He is one of the only predicting Sharpe falling to 8. It is still very much in the cards that Sharpe could go as early as 4 to a Kings where Ivey is not a clear fit and they may decide Sharpe's long term fit/upside is worth the risk over Murray. Same goes for Detroit.
You are also making the major mistake of confusing and conflating business decisions with questions of character.
Which is why I continue to ask for some semblance of sourcing on these so-called "character concerns" a few have asserted, at least beyond a vague KOC/Russilo podcast that only lists "concerns with his camp" which is so vague as to be unusable to draw any reliable knowledge from.
Posted on 6/6/22 at 3:15 pm to Bronc
Ivey has played TWO collegiate seasons. Nothing like Sharpe so it makes sense not to workout since he's already shown his abilities.
Sharpe has not. So you'd imagine he'd be jumping at the bits to demonstrate his abilities and possibly go #1.
Ill pass on the kid whose biggest question mark is the uncertainty yet he turns down the opportunity to prove himself.
Super suspect.
Sharpe has not. So you'd imagine he'd be jumping at the bits to demonstrate his abilities and possibly go #1.
Ill pass on the kid whose biggest question mark is the uncertainty yet he turns down the opportunity to prove himself.
Super suspect.
This post was edited on 6/6/22 at 3:17 pm
Posted on 6/6/22 at 3:17 pm to Bronc
Do some of y’all not have jobs or have a lot of free time during work? Where do y’all get the time to whine back and forth all day about draft projections?
Posted on 6/6/22 at 3:18 pm to teke184
quote:
I don’t see a way the current top prospects (Smith, Banchero, Holmgren, Ivey) fall lower than 5.
Correct, 1-4 is heavily locked in. And really it is:
Tier 1
Jabari, Chet, Paolo
Tier 2
Ivey
Tier 2B
Sharpe, Keegan, Griffin(a Tier 2B Bubble Player)
Tier 3
Dyson Daniels(A bubble Tier 2B player), Mathurin, Sochan, Davis, Duren, etc.
Where maybe there might be some shocks where one of 2B goes above Ivey, like Keegan or Sharpe to the Kings, but by and large tier 1 through 2B will be off the board by 9.
Posted on 6/6/22 at 3:24 pm to Bronc
Griffin in the same tier as Keegan?
Idk about that boss
Idk about that boss
Posted on 6/6/22 at 3:25 pm to Kerchek
quote:
it makes sense
It also makes perfect sense for Sharpe to do what he is doing from a risk/reward business perspective, and what 99% of people in his situation would do.
Now if someone had some sort of direct evidence that Sharpe was some toxic character, by all means, but to take what has perfectly innocent explanations and only accept the most negative interpretations? That reeks of motivated reasoning.
quote:quote:
a lot of free time during work?
One of the few benefits of our project workflow cycle. Crunch is offset by some decent downtime and flexible scheduling on the back end
This post was edited on 6/6/22 at 3:30 pm
Posted on 6/6/22 at 3:36 pm to Kerchek
quote:
Griffin in the same tier as Keegan?
Idk about that boss
I'm not listing my personal draft board, I'm talking about where the draft is likely to fall.
Griffin is unlikely to fall past Portland, but he's also not likely to climb higher than 6 either, which is why I listed him last and said Tier 2B bubble. He could slide down a bit, but very unlikely up.
This post was edited on 6/6/22 at 3:41 pm
Posted on 6/6/22 at 4:09 pm to Bronc
Griffin is dropping on boards. I’d be very surprised if he’s picked top 8
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