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Question regarding Salary Cap
Posted by LouisianaRanger on 5/21/18 at 12:12 am25
I keep seeing/hearing people say if we don’t resign boogie, we can’t go and use the money to sign Kawhi or another big name free agent. Why is that? I mean I know it would put us over the cap, but why can a team like GS go and sign Durant and be over the cap?
re: Question regarding Salary CapPosted by MartinVanNostrand on 5/21/18 at 3:21 am to LouisianaRanger
So a team can possess what’s called a player’s “bird rights.” This means that if a player has not changed teams in three years through free agency or being waived. If a player qualifies, then the team that the player isn’t reently played for is allowed to surpass the salary cap to sign that player. It basically means that you can go over the cap to resign your own players so long as they meet the criteria.
For example in 2015, the pelicans were over the cap but were able to resign Omer Asik because they had his bird rights. They couldn’t have used that money on anyone else though.
The warriors never surpassed the cap to sign Durant, they actually had to carve out the necessary space because they didn’t possess his bird rights. If the player’s association would have been more receptive to cap smoothing, it would have been impossible for them to sign Durant.
For example in 2015, the pelicans were over the cap but were able to resign Omer Asik because they had his bird rights. They couldn’t have used that money on anyone else though.
The warriors never surpassed the cap to sign Durant, they actually had to carve out the necessary space because they didn’t possess his bird rights. If the player’s association would have been more receptive to cap smoothing, it would have been impossible for them to sign Durant.
re: Question regarding Salary CapPosted by VA LSU fan on 5/21/18 at 1:02 pm to MartinVanNostrand
The league created the situation allowing Golden State to sign Durant by allowing the cap increase to happen all at once and therefore a team like Golden State that had all of its stars on either rookie deals or in Curry's case a reduced deal due to injuries.
re: Question regarding Salary CapPosted by The_Duke on 5/21/18 at 4:17 pm to LouisianaRanger
For some reason, Mark Cuban thought it was a good idea to help the record-breaking Warriors out by trading for an often injured, and overpaid player in Andrew Bogut. The Warriors prob couldn't have signed Durant if the Mavs weren't jackass.
re: Question regarding Salary CapPosted by TigerinATL on 5/21/18 at 4:22 pm to LouisianaRanger
quote:
I keep seeing/hearing people say if we don’t resign boogie, we can’t go and use the money to sign Kawhi or another big name free agent. Why is that?
Once you get above the Salary Cap you can only use exceptions like the Mid Level Exception (MLE) to add more players to your roster. If the Pelicans don't resign Cousins or Rondo and they dump all the dumpable/voidable players they'll be at roughly $93 million in salary with a projected $101 million cap. That would give them approximately $8 million which isn't enough to sign a max player.
quote:
why can a team like GS go and sign Durant and be over the cap?
What happened in Golden State was a perfect storm of good luck and timing. Curry, Thompson and Green were all playing on deals made before the cap spike from the TV money making them under paid once the cap spike did arrive which allowed them to have enough cap space available to sign KD. It's simply not something that is repeatable or applicable to other teams.
This post was edited on 5/21 at 4:24 pm
re: Question regarding Salary CapPosted by cgrand on 5/21/18 at 6:04 pm to VA LSU fan
quote:
The league created the situation allowing Golden State to sign Durant by allowing the cap increase to happen all at once and therefore a team like Golden State that had all of its stars on either rookie deals or in Curry's case a reduced deal due to injuries.
no
the league wanted to meter the cap increase over several years. The players association vetoed it. none of GSWs stars were on rookie deals except Barnes who they let leave.
every team suddenly had 20MM + in cap space and many (including the pels) squandered it. Durant chose his team because he could, in a “normal year” a team like GS would not have had that space but that’s not the leagues fault, it’s the players fault
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re: Question regarding Salary CapPosted by TigerBait2008 on 5/21/18 at 11:24 pm to LouisianaRanger
quote:.
if we don’t resign boogie, we can’t go and use the money to sign Kawhi or another big name free agent
That's not how it works..
re: Question regarding Salary CapPosted by ShamelessPel on 5/21/18 at 11:52 pm to cgrand
Still waiting on the woman who leads the PA to pay for her sins. I have to legitimately wonder if this was a male if he’d have been skewered alive by now. Attacking a woman of power in pro sports is a risky risky proposition due to how few actually have positions of power.
Guys like Lou Williams are getting much crappier deals than Moore and Hill got a couple years ago, and we weren’t the only idiots to act like idiots.
Guys like Lou Williams are getting much crappier deals than Moore and Hill got a couple years ago, and we weren’t the only idiots to act like idiots.
re: Question regarding Salary CapPosted by htran90 on 5/22/18 at 10:28 am to ShamelessPel
Moore is definitely worth 8m though.
But the asik, ajinca, and hill deals were definitely due to the predicted cap spikes.
But the asik, ajinca, and hill deals were definitely due to the predicted cap spikes.
re: Question regarding Salary CapPosted by ShamelessPel on 5/24/18 at 1:40 am to htran90
quote:
Moore is definitely worth 8m though.
But the asik, ajinca, and hill deals were definitely due to the predicted cap spikes
I don’t know about “definitely worth 8m”. Regardless, I wasn’t knocking Moore just pointing out how ridiculous and stupid it was for the NBAPA to not cap smooth. Everyone should be fired that had any hand in that decision.
re: Question regarding Salary CapPosted by TigerinATL on 5/24/18 at 8:43 am to ShamelessPel
quote:
how ridiculous and stupid it was for the NBAPA to not cap smooth. Everyone should be fired that had any hand in that decision.
But the league did NOT propose cap smoothing in the way most common sense people would. A common sense cap smoothing would be something along the lines of "We project an 85% increase in the cap 3 years from now so we are going to artificially inflate it 28% each year over the next 3 years." What they proposed was keeping the cap artificially low and giving the excess to the union to distribute to the players.
quote:
This led NBA Commissioner Adam Silver to float a "smoothing" proposal that would deviate with the existing system for determining the cap figure laid out in the collective bargaining agreement between the league and the players, artificially increasing the cap by a smaller amount than the actual revenue numbers would typically demand over the span of a few years. As Silver sold it, all the players would get well this way without causing larger system issues.
"The players would receive every nickel of their 51 percent that year, but we would artificially lower the cap and then make a shortfall payment directly to the union," Silver told Berger.
LINK
The new head of the union is one of the most hardcore capitalists I've seen. Combine that with the union leadership shifting from an every man role player like Derek Fisher to Max players like CP3 and LeBron, and that kind of commie bullshite was never going to fly. I'm not saying the league didn't want cap smoothing to happen, I'm sure they did, but they got greedy about it and wanted to smooth the cap in a way that wouldn't raise salaries, which honestly seems stupid since the owners were giving up the same total amount of money regardless.
It's just one of those things that both sides messed up when they should have been able to compromise, but I blame the owners more for their stupid "solution" to the problem.
This post was edited on 5/24 at 8:52 am
re: Question regarding Salary CapPosted by corndeaux on 5/24/18 at 12:12 pm to TigerinATL
my guess is that instead of just being greedy, i think Silver was more trying to protect teams from handing out the dumb contracts they eventually did. almost every rule/CBA change the league/ownership make is designed to prevent teams from being stupid and/or make them more money.
i dont get the NBAPA hate, unless i'm disappointed that Pels or whomever are capped out. but its not NBAPA's fault teams backed up the trucks for mediocre players.
iirc, the cap was supposed to continue to rise based on projections at the time. it hasn't, but all you can do is make the best decision possible with best information available. if i'm a player, i want the cap as high as it can be as soon as possible. give me a shot to maximize my own earnings while i can. i dont want an escrow check i have to split with 450 other guys for 3 years.
i dont get the NBAPA hate, unless i'm disappointed that Pels or whomever are capped out. but its not NBAPA's fault teams backed up the trucks for mediocre players.
iirc, the cap was supposed to continue to rise based on projections at the time. it hasn't, but all you can do is make the best decision possible with best information available. if i'm a player, i want the cap as high as it can be as soon as possible. give me a shot to maximize my own earnings while i can. i dont want an escrow check i have to split with 450 other guys for 3 years.
re: Question regarding Salary CapPosted by TigerinATL on 5/24/18 at 12:33 pm to corndeaux
quote:
i dont get the NBAPA hate
Because it was reported that the league offered cap smoothing and the union refused. Unless you go beyond the headline you assume the union refused something reasonable but that's not what happened.
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