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re: Pelicans are not expected to offer BI extension this offseason, moving in new direction
Posted on 5/6/24 at 8:11 am to TigerinATL
Posted on 5/6/24 at 8:11 am to TigerinATL
quote:
I think Atlanta doesn’t want to take a step back and would want a good starter to take Murray’s place. Maybe you bring in a 4th team and the Pels can find an alternative, like Dyson and pick for Wiggins if Golden State is dumping him as has been speculated.
At this point, I figure Golden State dumps anyone not named Steph in a fire sale.
That payroll is insanely high for a team that is in play-in territory for a variety of reasons.
1
Posted on 5/6/24 at 8:27 am to teke184
GSW ownder has made it clear their #1 goal this offseason is to get out of the tax.
That means if Klay is staying, he's taking a drastic pay cut.
It also means Wiggins isnt' staying there, and if anyone wants Draymonds dumbass they'd be more than happy to move him too.
and it definitely means CP3 won't be with them next year.
That means if Klay is staying, he's taking a drastic pay cut.
It also means Wiggins isnt' staying there, and if anyone wants Draymonds dumbass they'd be more than happy to move him too.
and it definitely means CP3 won't be with them next year.
Posted on 5/6/24 at 8:47 am to TeddyPadillac
CP3 is gone regardless. Depends on whether they cut him outright or find someone willing to take him for assets, however small.
CP3ms $30m deal doesn’t guarantee until 6/28, meaning they potentially get a framework to move him if someone needs him as ballast or is willing to do a $30m rental to clear long term cap.
Wiggins? They will want to move him but salaries of $26m, $28m, $30m (PO) mean they may not be getting a ton of relief back for him.
Dray? I think that is sunk cost at this point. $24m, $26m, $27.7m (PO) for an aging guy with major attitude problems who assaulted his own teammate.
TBH, I see if I can fire sale the likes of Payton, Looney, Kaminga, and Moody to dump the other non-Steph salaries then.
This is feasible for them as long as they don’t end up in the top 4 of the lottery this year, as it conveys their pick to Portland and extinguishes any obligation in a shite draft.
CP3ms $30m deal doesn’t guarantee until 6/28, meaning they potentially get a framework to move him if someone needs him as ballast or is willing to do a $30m rental to clear long term cap.
Wiggins? They will want to move him but salaries of $26m, $28m, $30m (PO) mean they may not be getting a ton of relief back for him.
Dray? I think that is sunk cost at this point. $24m, $26m, $27.7m (PO) for an aging guy with major attitude problems who assaulted his own teammate.
TBH, I see if I can fire sale the likes of Payton, Looney, Kaminga, and Moody to dump the other non-Steph salaries then.
This is feasible for them as long as they don’t end up in the top 4 of the lottery this year, as it conveys their pick to Portland and extinguishes any obligation in a shite draft.
Posted on 5/6/24 at 9:00 am to teke184
I honestly don't know what they are doing.
If they are serious about getting out of the tax, then they are going to suck as a team, and what's the point of sucking and having Steph on the team? Their run is over and if they are goign to suck, they might as well just go full in on the rebuild.
They could get back ridiculous offers for Steph right now.
If they are serious about getting out of the tax, then they are going to suck as a team, and what's the point of sucking and having Steph on the team? Their run is over and if they are goign to suck, they might as well just go full in on the rebuild.
They could get back ridiculous offers for Steph right now.
Posted on 5/6/24 at 9:02 am to TeddyPadillac
My guess is that they are trying to do what the Lakers did during Kobe’s final years…
Have sell tickets and mentor young guys while they do a rebuild.
I don’t see Larry Ellison allowing his GM to throw a ton of money at the equivalent of Luol Deng and Tomofey Mozgov, forcing them to dump assets to rid themselves of them.
Have sell tickets and mentor young guys while they do a rebuild.
I don’t see Larry Ellison allowing his GM to throw a ton of money at the equivalent of Luol Deng and Tomofey Mozgov, forcing them to dump assets to rid themselves of them.
Posted on 5/6/24 at 9:04 am to TeddyPadillac
Steph is 36 with a total of two years on his contract making about $60m a season.
Not that they couldn’t get assets for him but I don’t see them getting all three of good players, salary relief, and draft picks.
Not that they couldn’t get assets for him but I don’t see them getting all three of good players, salary relief, and draft picks.
Posted on 5/6/24 at 9:05 am to shel311
quote:
Or trade him in the offseason
Any package will likely include picks for this years draft which is the worst in recent memory. I get the want to move on from BI but there’s a smarter way to do this.
Posted on 5/6/24 at 9:06 am to teke184
Who are the teams that would realistically consider BI?
Hawks
Bulls
Pistons
Nets(?)
Lakers
Clippers (?)
Houston
Cavs
76ers ( added)
If you have others add it to the mix . Point being there aren’t that many teams.
Pels aren’t going to get a better player back imo. They looking at draft picks with potential (Detroit) young players with potential that have yet to show any consistency ( J green , J smith, Mobley ) or devalued player with potential on sale( Lavine)
Hawks
Bulls
Pistons
Nets(?)
Lakers
Clippers (?)
Houston
Cavs
76ers ( added)
If you have others add it to the mix . Point being there aren’t that many teams.
Pels aren’t going to get a better player back imo. They looking at draft picks with potential (Detroit) young players with potential that have yet to show any consistency ( J green , J smith, Mobley ) or devalued player with potential on sale( Lavine)
This post was edited on 5/6/24 at 9:11 am
Posted on 5/6/24 at 9:08 am to pleading the fifth
This draft is supposed to lack in star power but potentially has good role players in positions like center.
I wouldn’t want any asset package to be heavy on this draft but getting someone we see as the center of the future isn’t a horrible thing if we are only able to get a short term replacement for JV and Nance.
I wouldn’t want any asset package to be heavy on this draft but getting someone we see as the center of the future isn’t a horrible thing if we are only able to get a short term replacement for JV and Nance.
Posted on 5/6/24 at 9:09 am to AboveTheRim
Sixers are interested.
There will be others but this obviously isn’t going to be the Kevin Durant Sweepstakes part 2.
There will be others but this obviously isn’t going to be the Kevin Durant Sweepstakes part 2.
Posted on 5/6/24 at 9:10 am to TeddyPadillac
GS is 2 million under the tax line with CP3’s 30 million added on.
All they have to do is cut CP3 and they’re 32 million under the tax line.
They don’t have to move anyone to avoid the tax, and can stay under very comfortably while still keeping Klay at 20 million if he stays for that
All they have to do is cut CP3 and they’re 32 million under the tax line.
They don’t have to move anyone to avoid the tax, and can stay under very comfortably while still keeping Klay at 20 million if he stays for that
This post was edited on 5/6/24 at 9:14 am
Posted on 5/6/24 at 9:22 am to TeddyPadillac
quote:I think your valuations are way off, favoring the Pels too much.
Yeah you aren’t talking me into a deal where Bi and Herb go out for Allen and Murray and I think it’s a good trade. BI is worth more than Murray, regardless of how much all of you hate him and think he’s worthless, and Herb is worth more than Allen.
1. BI may have more value than Murray, if you don't factor in future salaries at all. I'd argue it's almost negligible once you factor in salary and BI's next extension
2. Allen has more trade value than Herb. That's it, not much more to say. It's not terribly close either
quote:We'd be trading the 1st and 4th best players for the 2nd and 3rd best players but also getting back the better pick.
That doesn’t make up the fact that we traded away the two best players for me.
I'm not arguing you have to love the deal or even want the deal, but it's not that far off.
quote:He does if it can improve the team. Again, that may be where folks or you may not like a deal, but the idea that a high level role player is untouchable is way too much here.
Herb doesn’t go out under any circumstance.
Posted on 5/6/24 at 9:26 am to TeddyPadillac
quote:They couldn't get the right deal that worked for them, which is very different from they couldn't get anything.
ATL couldn’t get anything for Murray at the trade deadline.
Posted on 5/6/24 at 9:29 am to pleading the fifth
quote:There's no reason why we can't ask for future picks.
Any package will likely include picks for this years draft which is the worst in recent memory.
But also, the draft is not bad where we'd likely be getting draft picks. It's only bad at the very top.
quote:And if BI has a season ending injury in game 12 of the regular season, then what?
I get the want to move on from BI but there’s a smarter way to do this.
Then his value is tanked, so would we wait another year?
This post was edited on 5/6/24 at 9:30 am
Posted on 5/6/24 at 9:29 am to shel311
quote:
They couldn't get the right deal that worked for them, which is very different from they couldn't get anything.
Agreed.
Midseason is always different from offseason in both assets available and cap space to work with.
They can now trade for 2024 picks on draft night and a number of teams now have more cap space to absorb players.
Posted on 5/6/24 at 9:33 am to teke184
quote:Or another way to look at it...from all reports around the deadline, it seems Herb was the sticking point on a Pels trade. So again, it wasn't that Murray had no value, ATL just couldn't extract what they wanted from NO with Herb being the guy they wanted.
Midseason is always different from offseason in both assets available and cap space to work with.
So then, from the trade deadline on, look how Murray played vs what BI did. One dude did probably incrementally increase his value while the other incrementally lost a little value.
The difference is in the margins, and maybe the Pels would view those incremental changes and maybe they were on the fence about adding Herb, and now they decide they will.
Again, not saying we should or have to do THIS deal, but just throwing out possibilities, and mainly, it's really not that bad of a deal. It's pretty close in value for both sides.
Posted on 5/6/24 at 9:34 am to Soggymoss
They are at $174M right now. The tax line is $171M
That's with CP3 and no Klay. That's 11 players.
If they let CP3 go, they still need to resign Klay, and here's the big one, they actually have to get better.
So they let CP3 go and they are $27M under the tax with 10 rostered players, and are going to resign Klay and fill out the roster with minimums and stay under the tax? That's a team that doesn't get better while the rest of the West outside of Blazers, and depending on what the Jazz do, are all better than them.
I have no idea what kind of contract they are going to give Klay, but I would bet money he'll get more money if he wants to go sign elsewhere. The Magic and Sixers would probably throw a good bit of change at him.
But as i said, if they lose CP3 and Klay, and don't really recoup a good player in the S&T they might try to do, then what are they really doing? They are going to be a bottom 10 team with Steph making $50M+ and probably 2 good years left to win something at best?
I guess it makes sense, if Steph is ok with it, to just play it out and retire there and not be that good while helping the young guys.
I think about if from Steph's point of view. he's got a family that's lived in the same area their whole life, and i doubt they want to move. Steph has achieved a tremendous amount in his career and doesn't have anythign else to prove.
That's with CP3 and no Klay. That's 11 players.
If they let CP3 go, they still need to resign Klay, and here's the big one, they actually have to get better.
So they let CP3 go and they are $27M under the tax with 10 rostered players, and are going to resign Klay and fill out the roster with minimums and stay under the tax? That's a team that doesn't get better while the rest of the West outside of Blazers, and depending on what the Jazz do, are all better than them.
I have no idea what kind of contract they are going to give Klay, but I would bet money he'll get more money if he wants to go sign elsewhere. The Magic and Sixers would probably throw a good bit of change at him.
But as i said, if they lose CP3 and Klay, and don't really recoup a good player in the S&T they might try to do, then what are they really doing? They are going to be a bottom 10 team with Steph making $50M+ and probably 2 good years left to win something at best?
I guess it makes sense, if Steph is ok with it, to just play it out and retire there and not be that good while helping the young guys.
I think about if from Steph's point of view. he's got a family that's lived in the same area their whole life, and i doubt they want to move. Steph has achieved a tremendous amount in his career and doesn't have anythign else to prove.
Posted on 5/6/24 at 9:47 am to TeddyPadillac
I never said anything about them getting better, but they can keep those 3 together and still stay under the tax, they don’t have to blow up anything.
And they still have Steph who has shown he’s capable of carrying them to a championship without a great surrounding cast if things shake out right
And they still have Steph who has shown he’s capable of carrying them to a championship without a great surrounding cast if things shake out right
This post was edited on 5/6/24 at 9:48 am
Posted on 5/6/24 at 9:52 am to TeddyPadillac
I just fundamentally disagree on BI's value with some of you.
BI getting benched and outplayed by Josh Hart last summer on the US team. BI continuing to shoot fewer and fewer 3s. BI gets hurt once again - this one wasn't a major blow since he came back. However...BI had the worst playoffs of probably any player considered a top 3 player on their team.
No, factor in his upcoming salary. His stock is maybe as low as it's ever been since the blood clot issue. He's just not a very attractive player at his salary IMO.
Herb on the other hand was one of the few guys who actually played half decent in the playoffs for us. Is the perfect teammate. Rarely misses games and is on a great contract.
That's the guy I'm keeping.
And I think Allen has clearly jumped ahead of BI in value at this point. Murray is probably equal.
I feel like this is an argument people would be having about Carmelo 5-6 years ago. People still thought that dude was good years after he wasn't. That's kind of what BI is becoming imo.
BI getting benched and outplayed by Josh Hart last summer on the US team. BI continuing to shoot fewer and fewer 3s. BI gets hurt once again - this one wasn't a major blow since he came back. However...BI had the worst playoffs of probably any player considered a top 3 player on their team.
No, factor in his upcoming salary. His stock is maybe as low as it's ever been since the blood clot issue. He's just not a very attractive player at his salary IMO.
Herb on the other hand was one of the few guys who actually played half decent in the playoffs for us. Is the perfect teammate. Rarely misses games and is on a great contract.
That's the guy I'm keeping.
And I think Allen has clearly jumped ahead of BI in value at this point. Murray is probably equal.
I feel like this is an argument people would be having about Carmelo 5-6 years ago. People still thought that dude was good years after he wasn't. That's kind of what BI is becoming imo.
Posted on 5/6/24 at 9:53 am to shel311
quote:
2. Allen has more trade value than Herb. That's it, not much more to say. It's not terribly close either
I disagree. and i don't think it's close.
We have a top 5 defender in the league that shoots 40% from 3 and shoots 85% from the FT line in the clutch making $13M for the next 3 years.
What Herb does, is way more important than what Allen does. What Allen does is done by guys making less than half of what he does. I"m not trying to say Jarrett Allen isn't good. He's a good center. He also doesn't fit what we need next to Zion.
All y'all do is bitch about wanting to shoot more 3's. Inserting Jarrett Allen into the starting lineup will make it even more difficult to shoot more 3's, and will still give Zion the same exact problem he's had here for 5 fricking years with a clogged up lane where a 7 footer is always waiting for him.
quote:
He does if it can improve the team. Again, that may be where folks or you may not like a deal, but the idea that a high level role player is untouchable is way too much here.
The problem is this doesn't improve our team, and that's why i'm staunchly against that trade.
I would absolutely include Herb and BI in a trade if it brought a guy back that made us better. Murray and Allen don't fit that criteria for me. Literally every team in the league would want and start Herb, except for the Celtics. Every other team would remove a current starter to start Herb.
Send BI and Herb out, i want Booker or Steph back.
I"m ok with BI going out for Murray, even though i think BI is the better player. I"m not ok with Herb going out for Allen. There are plenty of other options to get Allen, as well as other options to get someone that can do what he does.....OR WE COULD FIND A frickING CENTER THAT CAN SHOOT 3'S.
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