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Need to find aPG, Rondo is not the solution

Posted on 1/12/18 at 9:29 pm
Posted by htran90
BC
Member since Dec 2012
31435 posts
Posted on 1/12/18 at 9:29 pm
Maybe we need to talk about positives and how to fix this team instead of "BLOW IT ALL UP!!"

Promising PTAO win, but watching Rondo on offense is like a symphony...dude is so smart and amazing.

Watching Rondo on defense is like the OT thread about the 50 stone lady....cringeworthy.

The question is, how do we fix it this year or even next year? Hill coming back might fix things (He's a better defender than Cunningham/Miller), but its really putting all of our eggs in one basket.

Posted by 504Voodoo
New Orleans
Member since Aug 2012
13710 posts
Posted on 1/12/18 at 9:32 pm to
If he would stop gambling for wrap-around steals and actually decide to slide his feet and stay in Front of a defender we would be ok.

Eta: And stop turning his back to his man and see man and ball
This post was edited on 1/12/18 at 9:34 pm
Posted by TigerinATL
Member since Feb 2005
62442 posts
Posted on 1/12/18 at 9:41 pm to
quote:

Maybe we need to talk about positives and how to fix this team


I really think Hill will have a QPon like impact when he returns. Partly with solidifying the defense and partly letting Moore solidify the bench.

quote:

Hill coming back might fix things (He's a better defender than Cunningham/Miller), but its really putting all of our eggs in one basket.


If he's healthy I don't thinks so. These are some numbers corndeaux asked about in another thread about the defense with Cousins seeing if he could be part of a good defense:

17-18 AD/DC/Dante 247 minutes 103.9 DRtg LINK

16-17 AD/DC/Hill 353 minutes 98.0 DRtg LINK

16-17 DC/Koufos/Gay 311 minutes 99.0 DRtg LINK

The answer appears to be yes and Hill is a much better defender than Dante.

quote:

Need to find aPG, Rondo is not the solution


Not a long term solution, but Clark actually looked competent tonight. He's supposed to be much better than he's played all year. High IQ shooter and cutter that can take some of the ball handling duties and defend a little.
Posted by Silverfoxx
Member since Mar 2016
1021 posts
Posted on 1/12/18 at 9:50 pm to
What does PTAO stands for? I'm getting too old to stay up with all of the hipster slang.
Posted by Mystictiger
Texas
Member since Jul 2015
2668 posts
Posted on 1/12/18 at 9:52 pm to
Pelican’s theory of alternating outcomes, I believe.
This post was edited on 1/12/18 at 9:53 pm
Posted by TigerinATL
Member since Feb 2005
62442 posts
Posted on 1/12/18 at 9:58 pm to
Back in the Monty playoff season the team was doing the same thing, staying .500 while regularly losing games to bad teams. One of the rocket fans that frequents the board came up with Pelicans Theory of Alternating Outcomes because of the WLWLWL runs that team had. It fit so well it stuck and has returned.
Posted by Broski
Member since Jun 2011
76624 posts
Posted on 1/12/18 at 9:58 pm to
Who is this women on the post game show (Not Erin)? Sounds like she wants to get in Rondo's pants.
Posted by VOR
Member since Apr 2009
65659 posts
Posted on 1/12/18 at 10:03 pm to
PTAI is light years beyond hipster soak.

It’s solid basketball theory
Posted by Saints67LSU85
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2008
34 posts
Posted on 1/13/18 at 6:17 am to
quote:

Who is this women on the post game show (Not Erin)? Sounds like she wants to get in Rondo's pants.


I think that's Nancy Lieberman(sp)
Posted by Crewz
Member since Jun 2014
5093 posts
Posted on 1/13/18 at 9:04 am to
I go to Chicago and say I want Holiday and Mirotic. I tell them they are taking Asik and Ajinca, then ask then what else they need to make that deal work.

Ideally, we add Nelson, Diallo, and a first. Then, Bulls can go back to stinking and improve their own pick. Pels have a rotation set for this year and next.
Posted by htran90
BC
Member since Dec 2012
31435 posts
Posted on 1/13/18 at 9:21 am to
quote:

I go to Chicago and say I want Holiday and Mirotic. I tell them they are taking Asik and Ajinca, then ask then what else they need to make that deal work.

Ideally, we add Nelson, Diallo, and a first. Then, Bulls can go back to stinking and improve their own pick. Pels have a rotation set for this year and next.




Mirotic would be a dream to come off the bench...
Posted by TigerinATL
Member since Feb 2005
62442 posts
Posted on 1/13/18 at 9:29 am to
I would do that deal for sure. Your team option on Mirotic lets you cut him if you need the money, while Holiday on a cheaper deal let’s you dump Moore if Mirotic works out well.
Posted by Crewz
Member since Jun 2014
5093 posts
Posted on 1/13/18 at 9:45 am to
Exactly. And if everything works out, you have your full rotation under contract next year except Boogie and Rondo. If it works out, Boogie would want to come back and with the MLE you can either bring back Rondo or upgrade.
Posted by CelticDog
Member since Apr 2015
42867 posts
Posted on 1/13/18 at 10:19 am to
I hate giving up #1.

Would only work if boogie signs extension/long deal at the same time.

You are getting good but not great player mirotic for your #1 but also ridding of two bad deals.

Boogie is key. You think he likes team you make and stays.
Only if win 1 playoff series.

I would prefer to sign/trade boogie today to Cavs for first rounder and love.



Experiment failed.
Let lebron suffer whatifs.

Posted by TigerinATL
Member since Feb 2005
62442 posts
Posted on 1/13/18 at 10:27 am to
quote:

Would only work if boogie signs extension/long deal at the same time.


That's a non starter or he'd already be locked up. The rules make an extension this year worth about $7-$8 less per year than a new contract he would sign with us in the offseason IIRC.

quote:


Boogie is key. You think he likes team you make and stays.
Only if win 1 playoff series.


Just making the playoffs will be enough to keep Cousins. He wants this to work, playing with his boy a few hours from home with the team that can pay him the most money. He's going to give it every chance to work that he can.
Posted by DeionDeion
New Orleans, LA
Member since Apr 2010
6111 posts
Posted on 1/13/18 at 12:42 pm to
I don't think anyone would say no to that deal. Shoot you could almost convince me to give up two 1sts to make Holiday + Mirotic for Asik + Ajinca work.

Now I wouldn't complain about that deal but it brings up an observation I've had. The Pelicans went from not having enough spacers in the last few years so everyone was in/around the paint on offense, to now having almost the entire team on the perimeter. So my question is, is that a product of the Finch offense or do we need someone that plays offense in/around the paint?

Say for example in the trade MM mentioned, instead of Holiday + Mirotic, we could do Mirotic + Robin Lopez? At least on offense an inside player like Lopez allows Boogie to be Boogie and AD to roam (on top of probably having to trade away less)

Am I out on a limb with this observation?
This post was edited on 1/13/18 at 12:52 pm
Posted by htran90
BC
Member since Dec 2012
31435 posts
Posted on 1/13/18 at 1:18 pm to
quote:

Say for example in the trade MM mentioned, instead of Holiday + Mirotic, we could do Mirotic + Robin Lopez? At least on offense an inside player like Lopez allows Boogie to be Boogie and AD to roam (on top of probably having to trade away less)

Am I out on a limb with this observation?


We need desperate help on wing or D. Lopez helps over, but is there enough minutes to get mirotic in too? Would a team like Brooklyn be interested in him and try to facilitate something for Carroll?
Posted by DeionDeion
New Orleans, LA
Member since Apr 2010
6111 posts
Posted on 1/13/18 at 2:29 pm to
quote:

We need desperate help on wing or D


I agree with you, but I'm skittish because I think a 3rd big that plays on the inside is a bigger need. We could use Carroll at the 4 at times (the way the GSW use Iggy) which would help a ton when we go small, but we wouldn't see him playing a ton of minutes there.

I would love to have Mirotic but I wonder if he's the best fit for us. Carroll would be be a step in the right direction and is probably the best option with our limited resources. Somehow add Carroll and Lopez to the roster (obviously needing to remove other contracts) and I think the team shows some very noticeable growth
Posted by TigerinATL
Member since Feb 2005
62442 posts
Posted on 1/13/18 at 3:20 pm to
The trade MM proposed might be about perfect in terms of helping both this year and in the future. The problem with almost any trade this year is that if you trade Asik/Ajinca for an expiring like Belinelli/Ilyasova, that's a win now move that helps your cap next year but gives you no future value for the pick you're giving up. If you trade Asik/Ajinca for someone with future salary like Carroll or Lopez, that's going to force you to make a move like dumping Moore to stay under the tax next year. Moore would be a lot easier to move for little to no salary than Carroll or Lopez.

Make this trade and you have 3 options next year.

Let Mirotic walk but keep Holiday and have $11 million in tax space to resign/replace guys.

Keep Mirotic and Holiday and dump Moore for a future pick and have $8 million to resign/replace guys.

Let Mirtotic walk and dump Holiday and have $16 million in tax space. Basically resign Rondo for $4, use the full MLE on one or 2 other guys and sign a few minimums to round out the roster.

I think the best move would be to dump Moore, maybe you can get a player on a rookie deal or just cap space and a pick like when Charlotte traded for Belinelli.

Rondo/Minimum/Jackson
Holiday/Holiday/Cooke
Hill/Miller/Minimum
AD/Mirotic/Dante
Cousins/Minimum
Posted by Solo
Member since Aug 2008
8256 posts
Posted on 1/13/18 at 9:22 pm to
Interesting...
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