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Message
re: Murray to Pels is OFFICIALLY OFFICIAL
Posted on 7/10/24 at 9:48 am to Dantheman504
Posted on 7/10/24 at 9:48 am to Dantheman504
quote:
You don't need Herb as a pass through player in this scenario or to minimize shots. You also still have quality defense between CJ/ Murray and size with Trey/ Zion while guaranteed to outscore the opposing team.
IMO you aren't maximizing DJ if you are pairing him with CJ because CJ is going to have to guard the smaller guard due to being a detriment on defense otherwise.
I know this is about to send you off of the deep end but IMO the best combination of offense and defense that we can put out there is:
DJ
Herb
Trey
Zion
1
Posted on 7/10/24 at 9:51 am to Epic Cajun
quote:
IMO you aren't maximizing DJ if you are pairing him with CJ because CJ is going to have to guard the smaller guard due to being a detriment on defense otherwise.
I know this is about to send you off of the deep end but IMO the best combination of offense and defense that we can put out there is:
DJ
Herb
Trey
Zion
Not sending me off the deep end. There's just MORE to this. If this is your lineup then your bench is looking like:
Jose
Hawk
CJ
............ Looks like a great lineup to absolutely blow whatever lead we built and get destroyed on defense or vs good defensive players.
Yeah you may "maximize" BOTH offense and defense with your lineup above in a starting lineup. You are also completely minimizing our entire bench.
Doing it my way: maximizes offense/ sustains defense, and on bench maximizes defense and sustains offense.
Posted on 7/10/24 at 9:53 am to Dantheman504
The argument has never been that I don't think Herb is a good enough to start or don't think CJ should come off th bench. The argument is simply maximizing our entire team, putting people in the best positions, and being able to stay ahead and close games.
You get way more runs and inconsistentsy doing it the way y'all want IMO
You get way more runs and inconsistentsy doing it the way y'all want IMO
Posted on 7/10/24 at 10:01 am to Dantheman504
quote:
Looks like a great lineup to absolutely blow whatever lead we built and get destroyed on defense or vs good defensive players.
Yeah you may "maximize" BOTH offense and defense with your lineup above in a starting lineup. You are also completely minimizing our entire bench.
Doing it my way: maximizes offense/ sustains defense, and on bench maximizes defense and sustains offense.
We don't have to make line changes like a hockey team, we don't ever have to play Jose, Hawk, and CJ together just because they would all be coming off of the bench. They can stagger the starters/bench units.
Posted on 7/10/24 at 10:02 am to Dantheman504
Murray / Jose
Herb. / Hawk
Trey / CJ
Zion
Good starters, bad bench
Murray / Jose
CJ. / Hawk
Herb. / Trey
Zion
Good starters, worrisome bench and a big hole at SF/ PF depth.
Murray / Jose
CJ. / Hawk
Trey. / Herb
Zion. /
Trey can slide to #4 to replace Zion, both bench and atarters balanced....
Herb. / Hawk
Trey / CJ
Zion
Good starters, bad bench
Murray / Jose
CJ. / Hawk
Herb. / Trey
Zion
Good starters, worrisome bench and a big hole at SF/ PF depth.
Murray / Jose
CJ. / Hawk
Trey. / Herb
Zion. /
Trey can slide to #4 to replace Zion, both bench and atarters balanced....
Posted on 7/10/24 at 10:02 am to Dantheman504
You're not going to just empty 3 guys either. More often than not it's 1-2.
Let's just say we actually get Kessler.
Murray, Jones, Ingram, Zion, Kessler starting the game.
Then comes our Ingram and Kessler for Murphy and McCollum.
Murray, McCollum, Jones, Murphy, Zion
Then comes out Murray, Jones, zion for hawkins, Alvarado, theis.
Alvarado, McCollum, Hawkins, Murphy, Theis
Thatll be your smallest lineup easily. That'll last a few minutes and then one of Alvarado, McCollum, Hawkins needs to come out for Ingram or murray. You can definitely stagger things if you do it well enough.
Let's just say we actually get Kessler.
Murray, Jones, Ingram, Zion, Kessler starting the game.
Then comes our Ingram and Kessler for Murphy and McCollum.
Murray, McCollum, Jones, Murphy, Zion
Then comes out Murray, Jones, zion for hawkins, Alvarado, theis.
Alvarado, McCollum, Hawkins, Murphy, Theis
Thatll be your smallest lineup easily. That'll last a few minutes and then one of Alvarado, McCollum, Hawkins needs to come out for Ingram or murray. You can definitely stagger things if you do it well enough.
Posted on 7/10/24 at 10:03 am to Dantheman504
quote:
The argument has never been that I don't think Herb is a good enough to start or don't think CJ should come off th bench. The argument is simply maximizing our entire team, putting people in the best positions, and being able to stay ahead and close games.
You get way more runs and inconsistentsy doing it the way y'all want IMO
It's hard to imagine lineups and bench units when the team isn't complete. We still need another backup wing/forward.
If somehow BI doesn't get traded it makes it an even bigger headache.
Posted on 7/10/24 at 10:05 am to htran90
quote:
Alvarado, McCollum, Hawkins, Murphy, Theis
Thatll be your smallest lineup easily. That'll last a few minutes and then one of Alvarado, McCollum, Hawkins needs to come out for Ingram or murray. You can definitely stagger things if you do it well enough.
This example includes BI playing minutes. If he's gone then Trey disappears out of this group in your analogy.
I think y'all are underestimating how fricking bad a Jose/ Hawk/ CJ lineup is lol
Posted on 7/10/24 at 10:06 am to Dantheman504
Y'all keep acting like we have so many "starters" and CJ needs to go to the bench to give us a spark. When in reality Hawk ISNT starting so he already has to come off the bench. Jose is also tiny.
Herb literally makes the most sense to come off the bench with our team. Even if he also makes sense to start....
Herb literally makes the most sense to come off the bench with our team. Even if he also makes sense to start....
Posted on 7/10/24 at 10:07 am to Dantheman504
quote:
Murray / Jose
CJ. / Hawk
Trey. / Herb
Zion. /
IMO, unless we get an elite rim protector the defense in this starting lineup isn't good enough. I would much rather have DJ guarding the second best perimeter player, than the best.
Willie is in love with Herb and has started him since day 1, I just don't see him getting benched while coming off of an all defense first team performance.
Posted on 7/10/24 at 10:09 am to Epic Cajun
quote:
IMO, unless we get an elite rim protector the defense in this starting lineup isn't good enough
As said above, the point isn't for our "defense to be good enough".
The point is to outscore their offense so that when they need points they then have to deal with Herb. And then when Herb fricks them up our offense comes back on to score even more.
I don't think fans are "doubting our defense" with that lineup I think y'all are underestimating our offense or what impact Murray was brought in for.
Playing ahead makes defense easier. And honestly "maximizes" Herb because he's playing against tired players forcing shots instead of guarding (4) positions.
This post was edited on 7/10/24 at 10:14 am
Posted on 7/10/24 at 10:13 am to Dantheman504
I don't think that we have the right coach for an offense first team 
Posted on 7/10/24 at 10:15 am to Epic Cajun
quote:
I don't think that we have the right coach for an offense first team ?
Maybe not but acquiring Murray and keeping Borrego is a good sign.
If he wants to keep his job then that's what's needed.
Posted on 7/10/24 at 10:22 am to Dantheman504
I'm not underestimating it, I know it's a net loss defensively. You hope you can punch back the same offensively shooting the 3 ball with hopefully 3 guys who can hit 40% and then hope you can get an Alvarado steal/deflection or a theis block. For 1 of the 5 possessions you'll face.
That lineup with those 3 small guards lasts you a few minutes in the regular season. 0 minutes come playoff time.
The safest trajectory still comes with moving Ingram for a guy like wcj, black, and a 1st.
You find a young pg to groom, a solid starting center who you hope can hold up (at least until you see if Missi can be the guy).
Guards: Murray, McCollum, Hawkins, Black, Alvarado
Forwards: Williamson, Jones, Murphy
Centers: WCJ, Theis, Missi
You still need to find one more forward/pf though.
That lineup with those 3 small guards lasts you a few minutes in the regular season. 0 minutes come playoff time.
The safest trajectory still comes with moving Ingram for a guy like wcj, black, and a 1st.
You find a young pg to groom, a solid starting center who you hope can hold up (at least until you see if Missi can be the guy).
Guards: Murray, McCollum, Hawkins, Black, Alvarado
Forwards: Williamson, Jones, Murphy
Centers: WCJ, Theis, Missi
You still need to find one more forward/pf though.
Posted on 7/10/24 at 11:41 am to htran90
quote:
I'm not underestimating it, I know it's a net loss defensively. You hope you can punch back the same offensively shooting the 3 ball with hopefully 3 guys who can hit 40% and then hope you can get an Alvarado steal/deflection or a theis block. For 1 of the 5 possessions you'll face
No arguments here. I just don't like the amount of "hopes" above from a Jose/ Hawk/ CJ lineup.
If you can move around (1) player (Herb) to eliminate all the hopes and what ifs then it just makes sense.
The point is to eliminate as many variables and maximize everything else. Just seems like the answer is there, just not with CJ starting on the bench or playing many minutes with Jose/ Hawk.
Posted on 11/15/24 at 11:35 pm to whatiknowsofar
quote:
quote: This isn’t Griffs biggest blunders but I’m not fond of this trade.
quote: Townedrunkard
Well now I feel even better about this trade.
Just as I thought…..
quote:
In a few years, I think we will regret this trade. Basically three first round picks. I’m fine with the Lakers pick, it could still hit. I’m not including Dyson in this trade. Hawk I was ok with since he just got here.
This post was edited on 11/15/24 at 11:38 pm
Posted on 11/15/24 at 11:39 pm to Townedrunkard
quote:
Just as I thought…..
Ah yes, the old "x player got injured so I'm right about y player being better all along" argument.
Weak
Posted on 11/16/24 at 12:04 am to whatiknowsofar
quote:
Ah yes, the old "x player got injured so I'm right about y player being better all along" argument. Weak
Nothing to do with that. If you read any of my posts, I stated time and time again, I wouldn’t include DD in any trade.
Murray is a fine player but Griff is shortsighted as usual and like I said will regret the trade in the future.
Majority on this board said DD had no trade value or very low trade value.
Posted on 11/16/24 at 12:44 am to spaghettioeauxs
quote:
Trash arse trade. That Lakers and Bucks 1st will be high and Dyson on top of it. I’m out
Spaghettioeauxs knows ball.
Posted on 11/16/24 at 12:55 am to spaghettioeauxs
quote:
This is the part where everyone acts like the players we traded were trash and we are better through addition by subtraction. If anything we are underrating a 6’9 PG who can guard 1-5. Dyson will be a great player
Hold this L, St Augustine. He still scared to put the ball through a hoop?
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