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re: Moe Harkless: Revisited

Posted on 4/3/13 at 4:30 pm to
Posted by Jester
Baton Rouge
Member since Feb 2006
34717 posts
Posted on 4/3/13 at 4:30 pm to
quote:

What would you rather have:

AD + Jefferson / Pek + Ryno off the bench still getting +25 minutes

Or

AD + Lopez + Ryno

I'll take option 1 all day.



Well, hell, I had no idea there were only two options...
Posted by Jester
Baton Rouge
Member since Feb 2006
34717 posts
Posted on 4/3/13 at 4:31 pm to
quote:

And technically he is a PF, but come on. He's a 3.


Negatory.
Posted by danman6336
Member since Jan 2005
19528 posts
Posted on 4/3/13 at 4:32 pm to
D league doesn't always mean you're terrible

It's a minutes thing a lot of the time
Posted by KG5989
Das Boot
Member since Oct 2010
16376 posts
Posted on 4/3/13 at 4:32 pm to
Are we not hypothetically talking about what would happen to Ryno if we get the addition of a big name C?
Posted by Jester
Baton Rouge
Member since Feb 2006
34717 posts
Posted on 4/3/13 at 4:34 pm to
quote:

12apg > 9.2apg


Except that Marshall is nowhere close to 12 assists per game.
Posted by drake20
Baton Rouge
Member since Oct 2005
13156 posts
Posted on 4/3/13 at 4:35 pm to
it's sometimes difficult to force up-and-coming starters into bench, 20 MPG roles...They don't like it, and it doesn't work out long term.

If you don't like Ryno, the Jefferson/Pek plan is great...but if you do, that's not the best route. I value Anderson and his skill set more than Jefferson/Pek.

JMO
Posted by TigerinATL
Member since Feb 2005
62446 posts
Posted on 4/3/13 at 4:35 pm to
quote:

What would you rather have:

AD + Jefferson / Pek + Ryno off the bench still getting +25 minutes

Or

AD + Lopez + Ryno

I'll take option 1 all day.


That's not really the choice though. What you are really choosing from is more like:

Lopez for Pek/AlJeff
Aminu for Evans
Vasquez for Jennings
Wait until next year
Posted by Jester
Baton Rouge
Member since Feb 2006
34717 posts
Posted on 4/3/13 at 4:36 pm to
quote:

D league doesn't always mean you're terrible


No, but it does mean that you probably aren't a legit lottery pick.

quote:

It's a minutes thing a lot of the time



Definitely. That's why we sent our second round pick down there.
Posted by MrPappagiorgio
Prairieville
Member since Jan 2009
41125 posts
Posted on 4/3/13 at 4:37 pm to
That was a play on danman's reasoning on why Gragic is better than Gordon from yesterday, damnit

Posted by KG5989
Das Boot
Member since Oct 2010
16376 posts
Posted on 4/3/13 at 4:37 pm to
I like Ryno a lot too. Great scorer and shooter. But look at it from a team perspective. We would be better with Jefferson or Pek at C and having Ryno off the bench playing 25 minutes a night. Not like he would be getting scrub minutes. Plus, having 2 legit post players would free up the perimeter for Ryno to drain 3s all day long.
This post was edited on 4/3/13 at 4:39 pm
Posted by corndeaux
Member since Sep 2009
9634 posts
Posted on 4/3/13 at 4:37 pm to
quote:

Al Jeff is a perfect compliment to Davis, IMO.


What? He is having a great year with a basic offensive game next to Lopez. Unless you believe he wont add to his offensive game, how does a post anchor, clogging the lane and taking touches from him compliment him over the next 4 years?

How would you play Anderson and Jefferson- 2 of your top 4 players- together without getting lit up?

Davis needs a center who can defend, board, and take advantage of the open shots Davis will create for him.
Posted by danman6336
Member since Jan 2005
19528 posts
Posted on 4/3/13 at 4:38 pm to
quote:

That was a play on danman's reasoning on why Gragic is better than Gordon from yesterday
Which wasn't what I was saying with all that > stuff

But whatever
Posted by drake20
Baton Rouge
Member since Oct 2005
13156 posts
Posted on 4/3/13 at 4:39 pm to
quote:

Off the bench and still would average 25+ minutes a night. And he would thrive in that role. He's suited perfectly for an off the bench scorer. I would rather have a good C paired with AD than Ryno. I'm a huge Ryno fan, but its not like he's an elite game changer. Great shooter and scorer. Liability on defense. And technically he is a PF, but come on. He's a 3.


I disagree with everything here...there wouldn't be 25+ to be had...His uncommon ability on the offensive end at his position is a game changer...He's not a 3 (at all).
Posted by drake20
Baton Rouge
Member since Oct 2005
13156 posts
Posted on 4/3/13 at 4:40 pm to
quote:

Well that's only a problem if you have too many good players to pass minutes around

Lopez isn't very good, so it's no problem. Just sit him.



Lopez is a good 3rd big
Posted by Jester
Baton Rouge
Member since Feb 2006
34717 posts
Posted on 4/3/13 at 4:43 pm to
quote:

That was a play on danman's reasoning on why Gragic is better than Gordon from yesterday, damnit


Posted by drake20
Baton Rouge
Member since Oct 2005
13156 posts
Posted on 4/3/13 at 4:44 pm to
quote:

What would you rather have:

AD + Jefferson / Pek + Ryno off the bench still getting +25 minutes

+ no cap space/upgrades at other positions + trading Anderson

Or

AD + Lopez + Ryno

I'll take option 1 all day.


FIFY



Posted by GynoSandberg
Bay St Louis, MS
Member since Jan 2006
74456 posts
Posted on 4/3/13 at 4:45 pm to
You would play guys like Gordon, Davis, and (insert center; doesn't have to be big name. Blatche would work) 30+ mpg. All good offensive options, none liabilities on defense.

Address your need at SF by adding a guy who can stretch the floor and won't break the bank (Parsons? Buddinger? Tobias Harris? Dorrel Wright?)

Add a good, pass first PG to help set these guys up. Through the draft? (Burke? Smart? MCW?)

Now you have GV as insurance backing up a rookie PG. Ryno who can spell a still young Davis, as well as add flexibility in lineups where Davis plays C. Lopez is a 7', legit backup center. Rivers who could backup both guard positions. Fill the rest of the bench with those cheap guys who tap Monty on the waist.

In theory you don't hand out a max deal in this scenario. You can keep that in your back pocket.
Posted by KG5989
Das Boot
Member since Oct 2010
16376 posts
Posted on 4/3/13 at 4:46 pm to
Well he's not really a 4. He's the ultimate tweener. He's a 6'10 perimeter shooter that can't defend. His scoring ability is a game changer, I retract my previous statement.

And why wouldn't there be 25 minutes to be had?? Aminu averages 25 a night now. Rivers averaged 23 minutes before he went down. We could make it work and we would be a better team with the addition of a big time FA center. Not to mention the possibility of getting a good player in the draft at the 1 or 3.
This post was edited on 4/3/13 at 4:48 pm
Posted by Jester
Baton Rouge
Member since Feb 2006
34717 posts
Posted on 4/3/13 at 4:47 pm to
quote:

What? He is having a great year with a basic offensive game next to Lopez. Unless you believe he wont add to his offensive game, how does a post anchor, clogging the lane and taking touches from him compliment him over the next 4 years?

How would you play Anderson and Jefferson- 2 of your top 4 players- together without getting lit up?

Davis needs a center who can defend, board, and take advantage of the open shots Davis will create for him.



It's also worth noting that pick and roll defense is our Achilles tendon. We just cannot stop teams down the stretch if they have a top wing isolating on Vasquez in the pick and roll. Thus, to improve, we really need to bring in somebody to play opposite Vasquez that is not terrible in the pick and roll. Jefferson is terrible in the pick and roll for many of the same reasons Lopez is. He tries to anchor a foot in the lane, so he ends up in no mans land rather than either staying home on the big or hedging the pick. He does neither and gets burnt. Jefferson does the same thing, but he does look a little more menacing doing it.
Posted by drake20
Baton Rouge
Member since Oct 2005
13156 posts
Posted on 4/3/13 at 4:49 pm to
quote:

I like Ryno a lot too. Great scorer and shooter. But look at it from a team perspective. We would be better with Jefferson or Pek at C and having Ryno off the bench playing 25 minutes a night. Not like he would be getting scrub minutes. Plus, having 2 legit post players would free up the perimeter for Ryno to drain 3s all day long.


Ryno, Davis, and Jefferson would never be in at the same time.

...still don't see where you're getting all these hypothetical minutes from.

Davis will be logging big minutes next season (at least I hope so).
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