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Message
re: Mac trigger warning - His Pels Players Trade Values
Posted on 6/19/24 at 8:33 am to Dantheman504
Posted on 6/19/24 at 8:33 am to Dantheman504
quote:
I swear y'all don't like the dude because y'all are impatient as frick. We could bring on a 15 y/o for $10,000 to play against NBA talent for 10 years and y'all would cry to trade him at 17 y/o because he isn't playing like a 26 y/o.
When did I say that I don't like Dyson?
1
Posted on 6/19/24 at 8:39 am to Epic Cajun
Well you certainly don't value him extremely high
Posted on 6/19/24 at 8:58 am to Epic Cajun
quote:
C'mon you know that you can't judge a player's shooting based solely on their 3pt%.
First, you just said you can't judge how good a player is at shooting by judging how well he shoots the ball.
Also, we're talking productivity vs. potential. There are 2 sides to the ball and Dyson has been more productive using his one elite skill than Hawk. Especially in a league with a playin tournament where 22-24 teams are in win now mode and there are more buyers than sellers these days, productivity matters more than it used to in trades.
I say this as someone that doesn't want to trade either of them if we can avoid it. I see roles long term for both, but we have to get the top of the roster better situated or the bottom doesn't matter.
This post was edited on 6/19/24 at 9:00 am
Posted on 6/19/24 at 9:12 am to TigerinATL
quote:
First, you just said you can't judge how good a player is at shooting by judging how well he shoots the ball.
I thought you would be better than this.
Surely you know that a shooting percentage does not define a shooter.
You can't compare the shooting percentages of a guy who parks in the corner and only shoots completely uncontested 3's with someone who is running off of screens and essentially only taking contested above the break shots.
Posted on 6/19/24 at 9:24 am to Epic Cajun
quote:
thought you would be better than this.
Surely you know that a shooting percentage does not define a shooter.
A shooting percentage 100% defines a shooter IF that is their ONLY skill set...
What other skillset does Hawk have? Defense? Rebounding?
I get the perception that he CAN become a Steph Curry but he is NOT.
Dyson IS that guy already for the skillsets he has
Posted on 6/19/24 at 9:28 am to Epic Cajun
quote:
You can't compare the shooting percentages of a guy who parks in the corner and only shoots completely uncontested 3's with someone who is running off of screens and essentially only taking contested above the break shots.
Is this a pro-BI argument?
Posted on 6/19/24 at 9:33 am to Jester
quote:
Is this a pro-BI argument?
It's an argument in general. For example it's absurd to think that Horford is a better shooter than Steph because he has a higher shooting percentage.
Posted on 6/19/24 at 9:40 am to Epic Cajun
quote:
I thought you would be better than this.
I know what you were saying, but you have to admit it was phrased in a humorous way.
Also, you are what your record says you are, and I think I laid out a case for how the trade market has shifted a little towards win now with the changes to the system since 2019.
Posted on 6/19/24 at 10:07 am to ghost2most
I’d need to see who he has between Zion and Wemby. 92 seems high for a guy who has been as unavailable as Zion has been through a decent amount of years. But if there are numerous players in the 90s then it makes sense.
This post was edited on 6/19/24 at 10:08 am
Posted on 6/19/24 at 10:07 am to Epic Cajun
quote:
For example it's absurd to think that Horford is a better shooter than Steph because he has a higher shooting percentage
Literally not a single person in this world is going to argue this. Curry also has multiple skillsets.
Use an example comparing someone who ONLY shoots well and isn't the greatest shooter of all time.
Posted on 6/19/24 at 10:21 am to Dantheman504
quote:
Literally not a single person in this world is going to argue this. Curry also has multiple skillsets.
Use an example comparing someone who ONLY shoots well and isn't the greatest shooter of all time.
Currently, I'm just referring to how a shooting percentage is not necessarily indicative of how good a shooter is. Not the overall value of a player.
Posted on 6/19/24 at 10:35 am to Epic Cajun
quote:
Currently, I'm just referring to how a shooting percentage is not necessarily indicative of how good a shooter is. Not the overall value of a player
I understand. But the argument pertains to Dyson vs Hawk.
Hawk of which has NO overall value OTHER THAN his shooting ability as of now. So how does what you said relate or pertain to Hawk at all?
You are talking about how "shooting %" doesn't define overall value but that is the only thing we can measure for a guy like Hawk.
At that point your argument is that "if he took better shots or if they went in then he would have a higher value"
And i could make that exact argument for Dyson while being able to wrap in elite level defending.
Posted on 6/19/24 at 10:54 am to Townedrunkard
quote:He stunk, in part because he's dependent on others getting him open looks, which I've already said.
So what happened in the playoffs?
quote:Does he?
And Lauri has way more offensive game than Trey.
He's even more dependent on others setting him up than Trey even.
Trey was assisted on 68% of his 2s and 89% of his 3s last season.
Lauri was assisted on 74% of his 3s and 98% of his 3s.
This notion that you can roll the ball out to Lauri and expect him to make a play more than Trey is really not true, that's not who Lauri is.
Posted on 6/19/24 at 10:54 am to Dantheman504
quote:
He will surpass that. There's a reason Herb was a 2nd rd and Dyson was a lottery pick. They are similar players but one is 4.5 years younger
I’ve argued this plenty of times on here, and people are still ready to ship him out after two year lol.
Posted on 6/19/24 at 10:58 am to SlowFlowPro
Facts don't like, nor do they care bout your poor opinions. 
You guys don't watch Lauri play, that is what we've learned from these replies.
You think Lauri is out here making plays in Iso...that's really not happening. hardly ever.
Half of his shots are 3s, 98% of his 3s are assisted. The more you know...
You guys don't watch Lauri play, that is what we've learned from these replies.
You think Lauri is out here making plays in Iso...that's really not happening. hardly ever.
Half of his shots are 3s, 98% of his 3s are assisted. The more you know...
Posted on 6/19/24 at 11:01 am to Townedrunkard
quote:
I’ve argued this plenty of times on here, and people are still ready to ship him out after two year lol.
To be fair as prospects Dyson was expected to be more offensively than Herb was as a prospect. As great as Dyson is on defense, his lack of offense would likely push him down in the draft. There was hope that Dyson could run point, adequately shoot the 3 and be an above average passer. Not sure if any of those have panned out so far. They still might but so far nothing. Look at a guy like Ryan Dunn- a defensive only prospect in a weak draft and he may not make the first round.
Posted on 6/19/24 at 11:02 am to Epic Cajun
quote:Potential
I guess I don't see how Trey has a lot more value than Herb
Herb may never have another season with shooting efficiency like last season. In fact, I'd argue the odds are more likely that he won't. He can obviously improve in small spots, but he's awfully close to his peak.
Trey has way more room for improvement, he's never even had a season yet with starter minutes.
quote:Difference being Hawkins has yet to show the ability to be uber efficient scoring. If Hawkins shoots 7 3s a game at 40% puts up a .650 TS% in year 2, then yes he will have decidedly more trade value than Dyson. You confident he'll do that? I'm not.
but Dyson is also valued over Hawkins. Aren't they kinda similar comparisons, just to a lesser degree?
Posted on 6/19/24 at 11:02 am to shel311
Where are you pulling those stats? I'd be curious what those numbers are for our roster.
Posted on 6/19/24 at 11:10 am to shel311
quote:
If Hawkins shoots 7 3s a game at 40% puts up a .650 TS% in year 2, then yes he will have decidedly more trade value than Dyson. You confident he'll do that? I'm not.
If he gets more run? Yes, or close to it.
Posted on 6/19/24 at 11:13 am to shel311
quote:
This notion that you can roll the ball out to Lauri and expect him to make a play more than Trey is really not true, that's not who Lauri is.
So by your metric, Trey must have a lot more trade value around the league right? Since you like to compare Herb and Treys trade value.
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