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re: Lonzo Ball is now at 40% from 3. Check in here to eat crow. I am.
Posted on 2/22/21 at 8:08 pm to TeddyPadillac
Posted on 2/22/21 at 8:08 pm to TeddyPadillac
The odds of him shooting 3s at an elite rate was extremely low as well as the odds of him shooting free throws at a good percentage. Then the odds of him adding to his offensive game like a reliable mid range shot was also low. But here we are in less than a season and a half he's continually improved and added to his game and yet "limitations" is all you bring to the table.
1
Posted on 2/22/21 at 8:09 pm to TeddyPadillac
BI probably deserves more.
Posted on 2/22/21 at 8:28 pm to supe12sta12z
quote:
The odds of him shooting 3s at an elite rate was extremely low as well as the odds of him shooting free throws at a good percentage
Those are things that have been proven time and time again. It’s not some crazy theory to think someone who was shitty at shooting becomes a good shooter. It happens all the time.
You don’t just all of a sudden learn how to become someone who understands how to use your body to finish at the rim. That’s something you should have been doing since you were in your teens. It’s an instinctual skill set.
quote:
Then the odds of him adding to his offensive game like a reliable mid range shot was also low.
Yeah this hasn’t happened. His midrange shot is an inefficient shot b/c he isn’t a consistent shooter off the dribble. But he can get better at that.
The limitation I speak of isn’t a skill that is added by practice in the off-season. You can either do it or you can’t, and he can’t. Without the ability to drive to the rim and finish, he’s just a good 3&D player. Have you guys not seen the huge difference between Lonzo and Jrue, on both ends of the court? Is Lonzo gonna get Jrue money, b/c that would be dumb.
Posted on 2/22/21 at 8:31 pm to TeddyPadillac
quote:
This is the problem. Most of you aren’t capable of seeing his limitations.
You truly think others are the ones having trouble deciphering his game huh
Posted on 2/22/21 at 8:44 pm to TeddyPadillac
quote:
Justin Holiday
Alec Burks
Bryn Forbes
Joe Ingles
Pat Beverly
Norman Powell
Grayson Allen (who i bet won't get $25M/yr even though he's shot over 40% from 3 the last 2 years)
KCP
Will Barton
Sterling Brown
Kyle Anderson
Taurean Prince
Tim Hardaway Jr.
I said comparable players
Posted on 2/22/21 at 8:46 pm to GynoSandberg
quote:
You truly think others are the ones having trouble deciphering his game huh
Let’s remember all of this in 2-3 years.
I have no problem admitting I was wrong.
You act like I’m the only one that doesn’t think he deserves $20m+/yr.
Giving Lonzo over $20M/yr is Asik level stupid, and I drove the car for that stupidity while most of you were ok with that decision initially.
I have repeatedly said the things I think he’s good at, and that he’s a good player, but he isn’t worth slightly less than max BI.
Posted on 2/22/21 at 8:47 pm to TeddyPadillac
You leave Jrue out of this! 
Posted on 2/22/21 at 8:53 pm to TeddyPadillac
quote:
Giving Lonzo over $20M/yr is Asik level stupid
Asik was making $10+ million and wasn’t even playable. Even an overpay is nothing like the Asik or Hill deals.
He is going to get somewhere between $20-$25 million easily if he keeps up his play. Even if he gets the upper end it can’t possibly be more than a $6-7 million overpay in any debate. That is not franchise crippling for a small market team. I think he has turned it around and will support him until proven otherwise.
Posted on 2/22/21 at 9:07 pm to TeddyPadillac
quote:
WHen more of you accept what he actually is, a really good 3&D guard without any playmaking abilities in the halfcourt,
quote:
you'll realize he's not worth $20M+/yr.
uh...those guys get $20M+ in the NBA today
and as for 3/D guys, he'd be the best passing playmaker 3/D guy in the NBA
the question is how y'all want to get a 3/D guy. basically this thread has signaled that many posters think it's only worth it if we draft a guy or get a dinosaur and hope they don't break down next year.
Posted on 2/22/21 at 9:08 pm to TeddyPadillac
quote:
Let’s remember all of this in 2-3 years.
Ok. We can add it to the Lonzo takes of the last two years. Building a nice library here
quote:
I have repeatedly said the things I think he’s good at, and that he’s a good player, but he isn’t worth slightly less than max BI.
Well yea you had to say nice things once he started playing well. I don’t care much about the money, id just like the guy to be evaluated fairly. Keep playing well, great, nice trade asset or worthy of a contract. $20 mil is not “slightly less” than a max deal
be more disingenuous 
Posted on 2/22/21 at 9:15 pm to whatiknowsofar
I’m happy about it, but he gets wide open 3’s due to Zion. In a playoff type atmosphere, he’s probably hitting 30% with dudes regularly contesting his shot.
Posted on 2/22/21 at 9:19 pm to GynoSandberg
quote:
$20 mil is not “slightly less” than a max deal be more disingenuous
No it isn’t, but $25 mil is.
So so you think Lonzo is of equal value to Brogdon and VanVleet and Jerami Grant?
Posted on 2/22/21 at 9:49 pm to TeddyPadillac
Pretty foolish to evaluate players’ value with regards to their contracts in a vacuum
Brogdon and FVV were 4 year college guys who then took years to polish their games in the league. Not sure how he’s comparable but Grant took years to develop a stroke
Ball is 23. Did you have an opinion of Brogdon, FVV or Grant’s game at that age?
Here are the per 36 of those guys at age 23 season. (Brogdon was still in college at 23, this is his age 24)
If you really think highly of those guys maybe your position on Ball isn’t the right one
Brogdon and FVV were 4 year college guys who then took years to polish their games in the league. Not sure how he’s comparable but Grant took years to develop a stroke
Ball is 23. Did you have an opinion of Brogdon, FVV or Grant’s game at that age?
Here are the per 36 of those guys at age 23 season. (Brogdon was still in college at 23, this is his age 24)
If you really think highly of those guys maybe your position on Ball isn’t the right one
Posted on 2/22/21 at 9:57 pm to GynoSandberg
Brogdon was 23.87 in his nba debut lol
He’s already 28.
Lonzo is farrrrr ahead of his development
Van Vleet has been erratic this year, too. Lonzo’s development path with pass his by the same age
He’s already 28.
Lonzo is farrrrr ahead of his development
Van Vleet has been erratic this year, too. Lonzo’s development path with pass his by the same age
Posted on 2/22/21 at 10:20 pm to Lester Earl
quote:
Lonzo is farrrrr ahead of his development
I think most people who are arguing against Lonzo are just not believers that he can stay on the current trajectory and become exponentially better years down the road (like Brogdon, Vanvleet, or Jerami now). He can be what he is, a good 3 point shooter who is a good to above average defender, a transition creator, but I think if I evaluated Brogdon at 24 and Lonzo at 23, I would have predicted Brogdon to have the better career, he's just more complete. Lonzo still has a shot to shock everyone and find some sort of halfcourt game or learn how to finish in the paint again, but it seems a little more far-fetched than other young, flourishing prospects
This post was edited on 2/22/21 at 10:22 pm
Posted on 2/22/21 at 10:25 pm to whatiknowsofar
Spot up Lonzo is my new favorite Lonzo
Posted on 2/22/21 at 10:55 pm to LilWezyAna
quote:
I think most people who are arguing against Lonzo are just not believers that he can stay on the current trajectory and become exponentially better years down the road (like Brogdon, Vanvleet, or Jerami now). He can be what he is, a good 3 point shooter who is a good to above average defender, a transition creator, but I think if I evaluated Brogdon at 24 and Lonzo at 23, I would have predicted Brogdon to have the better career, he's just more complete. Lonzo still has a shot to shock everyone and find some sort of halfcourt game or learn how to finish in the paint again, but it seems a little more far-fetched than other young, flourishing prospects
I just realized the best comp for him is a smaller-Portland Nic Batum (age 24). That was the year they asked him to handle the ball more.
38.5 MPG
42.3/37.2 (on 6.1 attempts)/84.8
14.3 PPG, 5.6 RPG, 4.9 APG, 2.6 TOV, 1.2 SPG, 1.1 BPG
15.7 PER, 2.3 OBPM, 0.5 DBPM, 2.8 BPM, 0.099 WS/48
This year:
31.4 MPG
42.7/39.1 (on 7.7 attempts)/74.3
14.3 PPG, 4.3 RPG, 5.0 APG, 2.1 TOV, 1.3 SPG, 0.5 BPG
14.8 PER, 0.7 OBPM, -0.2 DBPM, 0.5 BPM, 0.083 WS/48
At that time, Batum signed a 4/46mil contract (11.5mil average) when the salary cap was 58.044 mil. So he went roughly 19.8% of the salary cap.
This upcoming year, projected salary cap is 112mil. that percentage would equate to roughly 22.19mil.
A smaller and slightly worse defensive option than Batum for 20mil seems fairly reasonable now.
Posted on 2/22/21 at 11:10 pm to htran90
One thing stats can't tell you is, how confident are you in Zo to produce in the clutch/playoffs?
Posted on 2/23/21 at 3:56 am to LilWezyAna
This is a really simple proposition for David Griffin, though. He goes to Klutch and gets a commitment that Lonzo wants to stay in New Orleans and gets a handshake deal done on the new contract. And if that doesn't happen, Griffin puts him on a plane to Chicago before March 25th.
Posted on 2/23/21 at 8:51 am to LilWezyAna
quote:
think most people who are arguing against Lonzo are just not believers that he can stay on the current trajectory and become exponentially better years down the road
Why not?
He has improved every year. Even when Shamit Dua had all of y’all believing he would never be a good shooter because he couldn’t shoot foul shots
This post was edited on 2/23/21 at 9:37 am
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