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supe12sta12z
Tiger Town
Member since Apr 2012
4077 posts

re: Lonzo Ball is now at 39.1% from 3. Check in here to eat crow. I am.
The odds of him shooting 3s at an elite rate was extremely low as well as the odds of him shooting free throws at a good percentage. Then the odds of him adding to his offensive game like a reliable mid range shot was also low. But here we are in less than a season and a half he's continually improved and added to his game and yet "limitations" is all you bring to the table.


Colonel Flagg
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Apr 2010
19701 posts
 Online 

re: Lonzo Ball is now at 39.1% from 3. Check in here to eat crow. I am.
BI probably deserves more.


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TeddyPadillac
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Member since Dec 2010
18061 posts

re: Lonzo Ball is now at 39.1% from 3. Check in here to eat crow. I am.
quote:


The odds of him shooting 3s at an elite rate was extremely low as well as the odds of him shooting free throws at a good percentage


Those are things that have been proven time and time again. It’s not some crazy theory to think someone who was shitty at shooting becomes a good shooter. It happens all the time.

You don’t just all of a sudden learn how to become someone who understands how to use your body to finish at the rim. That’s something you should have been doing since you were in your teens. It’s an instinctual skill set.

quote:

Then the odds of him adding to his offensive game like a reliable mid range shot was also low.

Yeah this hasn’t happened. His midrange shot is an inefficient shot b/c he isn’t a consistent shooter off the dribble. But he can get better at that.


The limitation I speak of isn’t a skill that is added by practice in the off-season. You can either do it or you can’t, and he can’t. Without the ability to drive to the rim and finish, he’s just a good 3&D player. Have you guys not seen the huge difference between Lonzo and Jrue, on both ends of the court? Is Lonzo gonna get Jrue money, b/c that would be dumb.


GynoSandberg
New Orleans Saints Fan
Member since Jan 2006
67703 posts

re: Lonzo Ball is now at 39.1% from 3. Check in here to eat crow. I am.
quote:

This is the problem. Most of you aren’t capable of seeing his limitations.



You truly think others are the ones having trouble deciphering his game huh


Lester Earl
Baylor Fan
Kamaratard
Member since Nov 2003
255593 posts
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re: Lonzo Ball is now at 39.1% from 3. Check in here to eat crow. I am.
quote:

Justin Holiday
Alec Burks
Bryn Forbes
Joe Ingles
Pat Beverly
Norman Powell
Grayson Allen (who i bet won't get $25M/yr even though he's shot over 40% from 3 the last 2 years)
KCP
Will Barton
Sterling Brown
Kyle Anderson
Taurean Prince
Tim Hardaway Jr.



I said comparable players


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32
TeddyPadillac
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Member since Dec 2010
18061 posts

re: Lonzo Ball is now at 39.1% from 3. Check in here to eat crow. I am.
quote:


You truly think others are the ones having trouble deciphering his game huh



Let’s remember all of this in 2-3 years.
I have no problem admitting I was wrong.
You act like I’m the only one that doesn’t think he deserves $20m+/yr.


Giving Lonzo over $20M/yr is Asik level stupid, and I drove the car for that stupidity while most of you were ok with that decision initially.
I have repeatedly said the things I think he’s good at, and that he’s a good player, but he isn’t worth slightly less than max BI.


Colonel Flagg
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Apr 2010
19701 posts
 Online 

re: Lonzo Ball is now at 39.1% from 3. Check in here to eat crow. I am.
You leave Jrue out of this!


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Colonel Flagg
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Apr 2010
19701 posts
 Online 

re: Lonzo Ball is now at 39.1% from 3. Check in here to eat crow. I am.
quote:

Giving Lonzo over $20M/yr is Asik level stupid


Asik was making $10+ million and wasn’t even playable. Even an overpay is nothing like the Asik or Hill deals.

He is going to get somewhere between $20-$25 million easily if he keeps up his play. Even if he gets the upper end it can’t possibly be more than a $6-7 million overpay in any debate. That is not franchise crippling for a small market team. I think he has turned it around and will support him until proven otherwise.


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40
SlowFlowPro
Stanford Fan
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
379010 posts

re: Lonzo Ball is now at 39.1% from 3. Check in here to eat crow. I am.
quote:

WHen more of you accept what he actually is, a really good 3&D guard without any playmaking abilities in the halfcourt,

quote:

you'll realize he's not worth $20M+/yr.

uh...those guys get $20M+ in the NBA today

and as for 3/D guys, he'd be the best passing playmaker 3/D guy in the NBA

the question is how y'all want to get a 3/D guy. basically this thread has signaled that many posters think it's only worth it if we draft a guy or get a dinosaur and hope they don't break down next year.


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30
GynoSandberg
New Orleans Saints Fan
Member since Jan 2006
67703 posts

re: Lonzo Ball is now at 39.1% from 3. Check in here to eat crow. I am.
quote:

Let’s remember all of this in 2-3 years.


Ok. We can add it to the Lonzo takes of the last two years. Building a nice library here

quote:

I have repeatedly said the things I think he’s good at, and that he’s a good player, but he isn’t worth slightly less than max BI.


Well yea you had to say nice things once he started playing well. I don’t care much about the money, id just like the guy to be evaluated fairly. Keep playing well, great, nice trade asset or worthy of a contract. $20 mil is not “slightly less” than a max deal be more disingenuous


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tibebecolston
Member since Mar 2013
2416 posts

re: Lonzo Ball is now at 39.1% from 3. Check in here to eat crow. I am.
I’m happy about it, but he gets wide open 3’s due to Zion. In a playoff type atmosphere, he’s probably hitting 30% with dudes regularly contesting his shot.


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10
TeddyPadillac
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Member since Dec 2010
18061 posts

re: Lonzo Ball is now at 39.1% from 3. Check in here to eat crow. I am.
quote:

$20 mil is not “slightly less” than a max deal be more disingenuous


No it isn’t, but $25 mil is.

So so you think Lonzo is of equal value to Brogdon and VanVleet and Jerami Grant?


GynoSandberg
New Orleans Saints Fan
Member since Jan 2006
67703 posts

re: Lonzo Ball is now at 39.1% from 3. Check in here to eat crow. I am.
Pretty foolish to evaluate players’ value with regards to their contracts in a vacuum

Brogdon and FVV were 4 year college guys who then took years to polish their games in the league. Not sure how he’s comparable but Grant took years to develop a stroke

Ball is 23. Did you have an opinion of Brogdon, FVV or Grant’s game at that age?

Here are the per 36 of those guys at age 23 season. (Brogdon was still in college at 23, this is his age 24)



If you really think highly of those guys maybe your position on Ball isn’t the right one


Lester Earl
Baylor Fan
Kamaratard
Member since Nov 2003
255593 posts
 Online 

re: Lonzo Ball is now at 39.1% from 3. Check in here to eat crow. I am.
Brogdon was 23.87 in his nba debut lol

He’s already 28.

Lonzo is farrrrr ahead of his development

Van Vleet has been erratic this year, too. Lonzo’s development path with pass his by the same age


LilWezyAna
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
BR
Member since Feb 2016
2022 posts
 Online 

re: Lonzo Ball is now at 39.1% from 3. Check in here to eat crow. I am.
quote:

Lonzo is farrrrr ahead of his development

I think most people who are arguing against Lonzo are just not believers that he can stay on the current trajectory and become exponentially better years down the road (like Brogdon, Vanvleet, or Jerami now). He can be what he is, a good 3 point shooter who is a good to above average defender, a transition creator, but I think if I evaluated Brogdon at 24 and Lonzo at 23, I would have predicted Brogdon to have the better career, he's just more complete. Lonzo still has a shot to shock everyone and find some sort of halfcourt game or learn how to finish in the paint again, but it seems a little more far-fetched than other young, flourishing prospects
This post was edited on 2/22 at 10:22 pm


ScoopAndScore
baton rouge
Member since Oct 2008
11361 posts
 Online 

re: Lonzo Ball is now at 39.1% from 3. Check in here to eat crow. I am.
Spot up Lonzo is my new favorite Lonzo


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30
htran90
New Orleans Saints Fan
BC
Member since Dec 2012
26463 posts
 Online 

re: Lonzo Ball is now at 39.1% from 3. Check in here to eat crow. I am.
quote:

I think most people who are arguing against Lonzo are just not believers that he can stay on the current trajectory and become exponentially better years down the road (like Brogdon, Vanvleet, or Jerami now). He can be what he is, a good 3 point shooter who is a good to above average defender, a transition creator, but I think if I evaluated Brogdon at 24 and Lonzo at 23, I would have predicted Brogdon to have the better career, he's just more complete. Lonzo still has a shot to shock everyone and find some sort of halfcourt game or learn how to finish in the paint again, but it seems a little more far-fetched than other young, flourishing prospects



I just realized the best comp for him is a smaller-Portland Nic Batum (age 24). That was the year they asked him to handle the ball more.

38.5 MPG
42.3/37.2 (on 6.1 attempts)/84.8
14.3 PPG, 5.6 RPG, 4.9 APG, 2.6 TOV, 1.2 SPG, 1.1 BPG
15.7 PER, 2.3 OBPM, 0.5 DBPM, 2.8 BPM, 0.099 WS/48

This year:
31.4 MPG
42.7/39.1 (on 7.7 attempts)/74.3
14.3 PPG, 4.3 RPG, 5.0 APG, 2.1 TOV, 1.3 SPG, 0.5 BPG
14.8 PER, 0.7 OBPM, -0.2 DBPM, 0.5 BPM, 0.083 WS/48

At that time, Batum signed a 4/46mil contract (11.5mil average) when the salary cap was 58.044 mil. So he went roughly 19.8% of the salary cap.

This upcoming year, projected salary cap is 112mil. that percentage would equate to roughly 22.19mil.

A smaller and slightly worse defensive option than Batum for 20mil seems fairly reasonable now.


Pelefraan 1
Member since Jan 2018
4280 posts

re: Lonzo Ball is now at 39.1% from 3. Check in here to eat crow. I am.
One thing stats can't tell you is, how confident are you in Zo to produce in the clutch/playoffs?


GOP_Tiger
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2005
7448 posts

re: Lonzo Ball is now at 39.1% from 3. Check in here to eat crow. I am.
This is a really simple proposition for David Griffin, though. He goes to Klutch and gets a commitment that Lonzo wants to stay in New Orleans and gets a handshake deal done on the new contract. And if that doesn't happen, Griffin puts him on a plane to Chicago before March 25th.


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Lester Earl
Baylor Fan
Kamaratard
Member since Nov 2003
255593 posts
 Online 

re: Lonzo Ball is now at 39.1% from 3. Check in here to eat crow. I am.
quote:

think most people who are arguing against Lonzo are just not believers that he can stay on the current trajectory and become exponentially better years down the road


Why not?

He has improved every year. Even when Shamit Dua had all of y’all believing he would never be a good shooter because he couldn’t shoot foul shots
This post was edited on 2/23 at 9:37 am


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