re: Lavar campaigning for Lonzo to Charlotte

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Pj Washington and Huerter help us win more than Lonzo does.

Make it happen.

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Yeah I was more referring to the "let's get more 1st round picks!" angle

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Are you surprised we haven't heard anything of Hart's extension too?

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No, the only reason I'm surprised that we haven't heard anything is because of who represents Lonzo.

Which is also why I highly doubt we are actively shopping Lonzo right now. They would have leaked it, no matter how tight lipped the Pels are.

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Lonzo's potential and value don't matter much to me. I look at is imply as he is a RFA next year and is going to demand 20M+ per year. We are not going to match it, so trade him now and get some value.

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Man I cannot believe someone will give Zo 20+ mil a year but I am sure it will happen.

Is Lonzo in the same category as Brogdon and VanVleet?
Both are really good defenders, shoot the ball well, and are actual point guards.

They are better than Lonzo at almost every facet of the game. The only thing Lonzo is better than them at is rebounding and transition assists.

I can't see how someone thinks he's worth 4/$85 like they got.

Guys that just got $16-20M/yr salaries:
Van Vleet
Bertans
Gallo
Grant
Harris
Bogdanvich
Morris
Lonzo isn't deserving of this unless he becomes a really good defender. His offensive game will never get good enough to demand that money like Bertans/Gallo/Harris/Bogdanovich have. He's not the same kind of shooter/scorer they are, and he won't become one, it's simply not his skill set. He can be a Jerami Grant type player that can knock down open 3's, rebound, and defend at a high level though.

Malik Beasley, KCP, Clarkson got that $13-15M/yr range. This is more where he fits right now. Next level is full MLE money, which is probably what his true worth is, but b/c he's young and still has time to get better, the $13-$15M/yr range is probably more what he will get, especially since so many teams will have cap space instead of using the MLE, and that's assuming at worst he plays like he did when he was good last year. he plays like he did in the bubble for half the season and he'll be lucky to get the full MLE.


Lonzo is most like Beasley's recent scenario, in his last year of his rookie deal. Beasley got some run the last 2 years in Denver, but only average 11ppg and shot well from 3. It looks like Denver didn't really care to invest more in him b/c he was never going to be a starter for them, and they pay Will Barton to be their 6th man, so they traded him for a 1st round pick from Houston. Beasley went to Minny, averaged 20ppg in 14 games, and now he got a nice 4/$60 deal.

Lonzo needs to make a jump to get paid, whether a big jump defensively, or a big jump offensively. If he doesn't, he's likely getting traded mid-season and he'll have one more short chance to prove he's worth more than the MLE.

All depends on the improvements he makes this season.

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Not to mention he has good size to him maybe unlike a few of those other guys.

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He's tall and skinny, and doesn't know how to use his size, which is why he's terrible around the rim.

I do think he's going to get money from someone though, which is why we need to trade him, b/c he won't be worth what he's going to get, just like Beasley. Denver was smart enough to let him go before paying him. I could easily see someone giving Lonzo a 4/$60 deal if he just duplicates what he did last year, minus the bubble.

If he can become a really good defender, he'd without a doubt be worth it, and i'd be interested in keeping him. I think what he can provide offensively is good enough, and i think he'll become smarter on that end of the floor. If he can be a lockdown defender, and show a commitment to hustling on that end of the floor, he'll get paid, and i won't mind it. One of our biggest issues defensively last year was transition defense. Guys being lazy about getting back quickly in a good position. Lonzo and Zion were the biggest culprits of that.

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He's tall and skinny, and doesn't know how to use his size, which is why he's terrible around the rim.

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You say tall like it's bad, and skinny like it's uncommon in the NBA. He's also still young and can gain more weight, but he has more size than most people who are primary ball handlers around the league.

And I definitely agree he hasn't learned yet how to drive to the rim, but that doesn't mean he can't.

But the main reason I pointed to his size is on the defensive side. And I don't think you can judge anyone's individual or team defense based on playing under Gentry. He was really good with the Lakers on that side of the ball.

But me mentioning size was more of a third factor in the money he'll get, which is why I had it as an afterthought.

I'm actually leaning to wanting to ship him at the deadline, because I think we can get a better piece(s) for the money he is likely to command. It may not be great return, but maybe we can get a good pick + expiring contract or someone who may fit better long term.

But I do want to see how this gels (or doesn't) first.

Edit:
Not really arguing against you because I think we pretty much agree, just clarifying my point.

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There are something like 30 20 million dollar slots that can be made available next offseason. It looks like it's shaping up similarly to 2016. Do you remember what those contracts looked like?

I hope we sit out next years free agency

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Yes i agree with all of that, and is another reason why i'd want to trade him. The Knicks are going to strike out in FA like they always do, and they are going to give him that 4/$85 deal.

No. once you sign them for less that's what you go by.

Like with the BI extension, we use the cap hold until the extension is officially signed, which it is why it's the last thing you officially do. so with Lonzo, his signing would officially come first to lower our salaries, and give us more cap space if that's what we are trying to do, and then you officially sign FA's, even though we may hear of the FA signings first and the Lonzo extension second.


But like i said, even if we resigned him to that, we won't have any useable cap space more than likely unless we can send Bledsoe out.