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re: KAT wants to be traded from the Wolves
Posted on 12/30/19 at 5:11 pm to corndeaux
Posted on 12/30/19 at 5:11 pm to corndeaux
quote:
If anyone would get Boshed, it's Zion who could be a super Draymond.
Or he could be a super strong Giannis. Do we want to shove Zion into a Draymond sized hole because KAT forces a trade next year? As long as the Pels draft and develop well I don't think there's any pressure to make a move just because they can. Wait for the opportunity to come along that's a real no brainer, or at least wait for Zion and Ingram to develop more so you can have a better idea of fits and the true costs benefits of adding a particular player.
3
Posted on 12/30/19 at 5:16 pm to corndeaux
quote:
lol. Predictable
What is?
That I want to give Ingram at least 4 years to turn into something? Most really good players take a good 3-4 years before they start leading their team to better records.
This is KATs 5th year, and they suck again
Durant led his teams to 20 wins as a rookie and 23 wins the next year with rookie Westbrook, before they got good and won 50 with rookie Harden.
I don’t think anyone thinks Ingram is going to be as good as Durant.
I do expect 5th year Ingram and 2nd year Zion to lead this team to a winning record though, especially while they have quality veterans like Jrue and JJ.
Posted on 12/30/19 at 5:16 pm to TeddyPadillac
quote:
But AD is a much much better player than KAT, especially when he doesn’t have to be the #1 guy.
Outside of his defense, he's not. KAT is just ridiculous on the offensive and and can kill you in ways that no other big in the league can.
Also, why is AD definitely especially as the #2 guy when you dont even know what KAT could do as the #2. There's absolutely no reason to think that he would would be as good or better than AD playing with someone like Lebron.
You cant make a very big list of things that AD can do better than KAT, and definitely not "much better."
Posted on 12/30/19 at 5:18 pm to TigerinATL
quote:
Wait for the opportunity to come along that's a real no brainer, or at least wait for Zion and Ingram to develop more so you can have a better idea of fits and the true costs benefits of adding a particular player.
I agree. Unfortunately disgruntled superstars asking for a trade is becoming commonplace. There will be guys we can trade for down the line who are the same caliber player. But when that happens I think it will take closer to an AD or PG price rather than a Cousins price because guys are asking out of contracts sooner and sooner. I don’t think it will be palatable to many fans initially.
This post was edited on 12/30/19 at 5:20 pm
Posted on 12/30/19 at 5:29 pm to greewe
Arguing strictly offensive numbers, then KAT is a catch.
On this Pelicans team, NBA family has been churned up on many occasions. The whole team this year have played through adversity with dignity, hard work and togetherness. I like that formula.
I don't know KAT, but a player of his ability is a prize. Winning the prize is not always a good thing. Boston won the Kyrie prize. KAT wanting out this soon after signing a long term deal puts stink on a player I do not want to pay my whole stash on.
On this Pelicans team, NBA family has been churned up on many occasions. The whole team this year have played through adversity with dignity, hard work and togetherness. I like that formula.
I don't know KAT, but a player of his ability is a prize. Winning the prize is not always a good thing. Boston won the Kyrie prize. KAT wanting out this soon after signing a long term deal puts stink on a player I do not want to pay my whole stash on.
Posted on 12/30/19 at 5:29 pm to iwyLSUiwy
The difference in their defense is vast
Posted on 12/30/19 at 5:32 pm to kpop1
How do you suppose the Pelicans acquire a star player? Those guys almost always force their way out.
Posted on 12/30/19 at 5:40 pm to supe12sta12z
I don't oppose that they want out. Most all great players do want out. We all know that is the most likely way to get one. Like buying a house. One has to come up on the market; you have to have sufficient down payment, etc., etc.
My only point was, he is a player, maybe after the AD bad taste, who is disgruntled now, has had superior players say he is soft; and could possibly stifle our team now. If i had a list of players who force their way out of a team, I may have a different opinion of them. Right now, I don't want KAT.
My only point was, he is a player, maybe after the AD bad taste, who is disgruntled now, has had superior players say he is soft; and could possibly stifle our team now. If i had a list of players who force their way out of a team, I may have a different opinion of them. Right now, I don't want KAT.
Posted on 12/30/19 at 5:40 pm to iwyLSUiwy
quote:
Outside of his defense, he's not. KAT is just ridiculous on the offensive and and can kill you in ways that no other big in the league can.
KAT is terrible on defense.
AD is the ideal 5 pick and roll/pop to play with an elite guard.
ADs defense is that much better over KATs defense than KATs offense over ADs.
Posted on 12/30/19 at 5:56 pm to greewe
Meant to say multiple potential future all stars..
Hayes sure looks like he could be one, and Ball has the raw talent, just may never reach his full potential..
The more I think about it though, the team that should go for him and Wiggins is OKC.
Paul, Adams and 6-7 of those 1sts for KAT and Wiggins would be good for both sides. OKC still keeps a few 1sts of their own also. May be too much future money tied up for them though
Hayes sure looks like he could be one, and Ball has the raw talent, just may never reach his full potential..
The more I think about it though, the team that should go for him and Wiggins is OKC.
Paul, Adams and 6-7 of those 1sts for KAT and Wiggins would be good for both sides. OKC still keeps a few 1sts of their own also. May be too much future money tied up for them though
Posted on 12/30/19 at 6:07 pm to TigerinATL
I'm not advocating for a trade right now.
You brought up the potential fit issues of this trio. If we're speculating on what that team looks like then, for me, telling the most skilled offensive big man of all time that he needs to set screens and stand in the corner on offense doesn't make a ton of sense.
This is interesting. I'm reading this as a knock on Draymond and his skills; that may be wrong. Draymond is a Hall of Famer and paradigm shifter. If Zion can mimic much of his skills and add his unique scoring talents to them, that is a hell of a player. I think of a young Magic Johnson line (19/9/9 on good efficiency), but with excellent defense.
Giannis has some roots there, but he is much more of a scorer than Draymond (maybe Zion?) will ever be.
Interesting question is which is better: a Zion that plays like a Harden/Giannis and scores all the points, with everything flowing through him or a Zion that is maybe not looking to score all the time, but has teammates he sets up (on and off ball) and they help carry the scoring load?
You brought up the potential fit issues of this trio. If we're speculating on what that team looks like then, for me, telling the most skilled offensive big man of all time that he needs to set screens and stand in the corner on offense doesn't make a ton of sense.
quote:
shove Zion into a Draymond sized hole
This is interesting. I'm reading this as a knock on Draymond and his skills; that may be wrong. Draymond is a Hall of Famer and paradigm shifter. If Zion can mimic much of his skills and add his unique scoring talents to them, that is a hell of a player. I think of a young Magic Johnson line (19/9/9 on good efficiency), but with excellent defense.
Giannis has some roots there, but he is much more of a scorer than Draymond (maybe Zion?) will ever be.
Interesting question is which is better: a Zion that plays like a Harden/Giannis and scores all the points, with everything flowing through him or a Zion that is maybe not looking to score all the time, but has teammates he sets up (on and off ball) and they help carry the scoring load?
Posted on 12/30/19 at 6:12 pm to TeddyPadillac
quote:
What is?
That you are willing to be patient and supply context with the Pels player, who has shown a hell of a lot less thus far, than a non Pels player.
Also, that you're arguing with yourself. My entire post was about Towns's unmatched offensive ability and how it would be strange to turn him into Miami Chris Bosh if the Pels did actually acquire him.
I never once said he's a winner. Or a franchise cornerstone. Or a great defensive player. Or that the Pels should acquire him. Just that he is arguably the most versatile and efficient offensive big man of all time and he's 24.
Posted on 12/30/19 at 6:41 pm to corndeaux
I guess I need to watch more of him if he's better offensively than Kareem and Wilt.
Posted on 12/30/19 at 6:46 pm to corndeaux
Really haven’t watched much of KAT. I know he puts up great numbers and Jimmy Butler thinks he’s soft.
Is he kind of like Boogie, a skilled offensive big (with a better attitude)?
Not sure I’d trade a ton of assets for him. Seems like a really good player to pair up with Zion and BI, but not a guy who comes in and puts you over the top.
Is he kind of like Boogie, a skilled offensive big (with a better attitude)?
Not sure I’d trade a ton of assets for him. Seems like a really good player to pair up with Zion and BI, but not a guy who comes in and puts you over the top.
Posted on 12/30/19 at 6:47 pm to Macintosh
quote:
Honestly I wouldn’t go for it, but at the same time KAT would compliment Zion perfectlyz and a Trio of Zion/Ingram/KAT could be special
I’m not sure you could construct a better trio then those three.
Honestly, I would probably do it.
I also doubt they would want Jrue back. So you likely have your core of Jrue/Zion/Ingram/Kat.
Tell me what team beats that in three seasons with solid complimentary players and good coaching?
I’m coming up pretty short
Posted on 12/30/19 at 6:50 pm to TigerinATL
quote:
Do we want to shove Zion into a Draymond sized hole because KAT forces a trade next year? As long as the Pels draft and develop well I don't think there's any pressure to make a move just because they can
I think this is the biggest issue with a KAT deal or any deal for an all-star cailber player. We are scratching the surface of BI and haven't see Zion play in a regular season game. We can guess, but we don't know how they will progress individually much less together.
So once you've confidently assessed Zion & BI's strengths and weaknesses (individually & together), go get a player with your war chest that best compliments that.
Posted on 12/30/19 at 7:15 pm to TigerinATL
You meant BI as the player/creator like Giannis, right?
As mich as I hope Zion to be great I can’t imagine A world where BI keeps progression and he isn’t in that Giannis/KD convo. He has the skill set and is well on pace.
Also I’d pass on Kat—we don’t need that
As mich as I hope Zion to be great I can’t imagine A world where BI keeps progression and he isn’t in that Giannis/KD convo. He has the skill set and is well on pace.
Also I’d pass on Kat—we don’t need that
This post was edited on 12/30/19 at 7:16 pm
Posted on 12/30/19 at 8:30 pm to corndeaux
quote:
I'm reading this as a knock on Draymond and his skills
That's not what I was going for. It's more we don't know what Zion will be yet and having 2 highly skilled, max level offensive players like KAT and BI seems like it could stunt his development.
Posted on 12/30/19 at 9:10 pm to Bronc
quote:
I also doubt they would want Jrue back. So you likely have your core of Jrue/Zion/Ingram/Kat.
issue is, they're going to want a young talent + assets, which we have in someone like Hayes. Redraft, he likely goes top 5, maybe even top 3 IMHO.
Issue is, hayes alone won't be enough and NAW nor jackson showed enough promise to be worthy of a viable asset.
Posted on 12/30/19 at 11:18 pm to TigerinATL
I don’t want max money tied up with a big. We will be maxing BI who is at a much more valuable position. We’ve seen life with a talented elite big, it ain’t much.
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