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re: Just out of curiosity...on BI...which of the following scenarios would you be happy to do?
Posted on 10/7/24 at 10:44 am to Broski
Posted on 10/7/24 at 10:44 am to Broski
It's just ridiculous the hate BI gets.
And i'm not saying he doesn't deserve criticism, b/c he absolutely does, but the level of it is just so silly, and so much of it is based on stupid opinions that are easily debunked with facts. There's plenty you can say that BI hasn't done well that can also be backed up with facts.
Let's see what he looks like this year with a real PG and something to prove to not just us but the rest of the NBA that doesn't want to give him that max contract.
I'll be the first to say trade him if he is struggling to play within the offense we want, but the best scenario for us is our 6'8" all-star caliber player finds his groove this year, while Zion takes that MVP level step and Murray is a top 5 PG in the league for assists, and we figure out how to close games out in the clutch. If you noticed that lineup we had out in that gif of BI blocking Wemby, that's who he was guarding on that play b/c we went small. Having BI and Trey's length and Zion's bulk should be the key to us being successful playing small ball, especially with two long perimeter defenders in Herb and Murray who are 2 of the best in the league at getting deflections. This team can be special with their small ball. It's up to Zion to take that next step and the other 4 guys to find their roles around him, but size wise defensively they have the potential to be special given their offensive talent
And i'm not saying he doesn't deserve criticism, b/c he absolutely does, but the level of it is just so silly, and so much of it is based on stupid opinions that are easily debunked with facts. There's plenty you can say that BI hasn't done well that can also be backed up with facts.
Let's see what he looks like this year with a real PG and something to prove to not just us but the rest of the NBA that doesn't want to give him that max contract.
I'll be the first to say trade him if he is struggling to play within the offense we want, but the best scenario for us is our 6'8" all-star caliber player finds his groove this year, while Zion takes that MVP level step and Murray is a top 5 PG in the league for assists, and we figure out how to close games out in the clutch. If you noticed that lineup we had out in that gif of BI blocking Wemby, that's who he was guarding on that play b/c we went small. Having BI and Trey's length and Zion's bulk should be the key to us being successful playing small ball, especially with two long perimeter defenders in Herb and Murray who are 2 of the best in the league at getting deflections. This team can be special with their small ball. It's up to Zion to take that next step and the other 4 guys to find their roles around him, but size wise defensively they have the potential to be special given their offensive talent
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Posted on 10/7/24 at 10:53 am to Broski
quote:I think without context, BI is the better player.
Lol what the frick... is this where someone legit tries to say Trey is better than BI?
But for this team right now, I think Trey Murphy getting starter minutes would have a more positive impact on winning than BI.
Posted on 10/7/24 at 10:55 am to Dinky Mulberry
Bro taking the day off already 
Posted on 10/7/24 at 11:32 am to shel311
quote:
But for this team right now, I think Trey Murphy getting starter minutes would have a more positive impact on winning than BI.
The player that this board thinks Trey is, sure.
The player that Trey actually is, probably not.
Posted on 10/7/24 at 11:54 am to Broski
quote:Agree to disagree
The player that this board thinks Trey is, sure.
The player that Trey actually is, probably not.
Posted on 10/7/24 at 2:04 pm to shel311
quote:
Agree to disagree
The playoff series says Broski is right.
Posted on 10/7/24 at 3:39 pm to Galactic Inquisitor
quote:
The playoff series says Broski is right.
Fantastic argument for a paying Brandon Ingram thread...
My argument isn't that BI is a bad player. However, he is not worth his next contract to this team, especially with Trey being on the roster. This roster needs to be balanced and we need a competent NBA center. The fact is that over the last two seasons Trey has been more of a positive when on the court with Zion than BI has. Yes, BI has a dimension to his game that Trey does not. He can create (both shots and passing) at a level that Trey does not have. However, Trey brings court spacing that Zion and DJM desperately need and BI does not. It is all about what you value based on the financial constraints. I value Trey's spacing and a real NBA center to go along with Zion and Murray more than BI's creation on ball as a third option.
Posted on 10/7/24 at 3:59 pm to Galactic Inquisitor
quote:Where BI crushed it!!
The playoff series says Broski is right.
Posted on 10/7/24 at 9:10 pm to shel311
BI was their overwhelmingly primary focus on defense and Trey had a worse series. Y'all are just way too ready to give Trey something he hasn't earned, so you have to do it at BI's expense. It's unfortunate, because Trey still has time to earn it.
This post was edited on 10/7/24 at 9:11 pm
Posted on 10/8/24 at 7:07 am to Galactic Inquisitor
quote:
BI was their overwhelmingly primary focus on defense and Trey had a worse series. Y'all are just way too ready to give Trey something he hasn't earned, so you have to do it at BI's expense. It's unfortunate, because Trey still has time to earn it.
BI wants a MAX contract! Trey doesn't require a max contract. BI was playing on a max contract during that series, Trey was playing on rookie contract as the 17th pick. They are at two different points in their career. Why don't you address this? So I can get 80% production for 60% cost and he meshes much better with my best player while allowing me to round out my roster? Sign me up.
It is at BI's expense because he wants to be paid as a superstar and he has proven he is not a superstar. Trey just so happens to be on the roster and plays the same position and also requires a new contract. Trey will be held to the standards of his new contract when that time comes just as BI is held to his current contract and what he wants in his next one.
This post was edited on 10/8/24 at 7:09 am
Posted on 10/8/24 at 8:06 am to ThePistol
quote:
Trey doesn't require a max contract.
If Trey ever outperforms BI, he's going to expect a max.
quote:
So I can get 80% production for 60% cost and he meshes much better with my best player while allowing me to round out my roster? Sign me up.
You aren't getting 80% of the production, though. That's the part that you're missing. You don't even get 80% of the points. And Trey provides nothing in the way of shot creation. He should have absolutely thrived when the Thunder focused on BI and CJ, but he didn't, because he is still extremely dependent on facilitators to score.
quote:
It is at BI's expense because he wants to be paid as a superstar and he has proven he is not a superstar. Trey just so happens to be on the roster and plays the same position and also requires a new contract. Trey will be held to the standards of his new contract when that time comes just as BI is held to his current contract and what he wants in his next one.
I'm glad you're not the GM.
Posted on 10/8/24 at 8:41 am to Galactic Inquisitor
This team should be making decisions with Zion and DM as the primary facilitators moving forward. Neither of those players were present in the playoffs last year. It also makes BI's creation something that they don't need to pay the max for, especially when they don't have a real NBA center on the roster.
Just to be clear, you are advocating paying BI $45-50 million a year. Are you keeping Trey in that scenario or are you letting him walk or trading him? If you are keeping him, how would you round out this roster with real NBA players to compete?
Just a reminder to you, Trey scored exactly 80% of what BI did in that OKC series while shooting a higher percentage from 2 and 3, averaging more rebounds, blocks, and steals per game.
I really don't understand your logic here. Ingram is not a max player, especially for this team moving forward. Again, it is not that Ingram is a bad player, he just isn't a great player or a great fit for this team for the money he is demanding.
Just to be clear, you are advocating paying BI $45-50 million a year. Are you keeping Trey in that scenario or are you letting him walk or trading him? If you are keeping him, how would you round out this roster with real NBA players to compete?
Just a reminder to you, Trey scored exactly 80% of what BI did in that OKC series while shooting a higher percentage from 2 and 3, averaging more rebounds, blocks, and steals per game.
I really don't understand your logic here. Ingram is not a max player, especially for this team moving forward. Again, it is not that Ingram is a bad player, he just isn't a great player or a great fit for this team for the money he is demanding.
Posted on 10/8/24 at 9:15 am to ThePistol
quote:
This team should be making decisions with Zion and DM as the primary facilitators moving forward.
You haven't even seen Murray play yet with this team.
quote:
It also makes BI's creation something that they don't need to pay the max for, especially when they don't have a real NBA center on the roster.
No team has ever said we need less players that can create for themselves.
If BI has a shot chart more similar to 2021, then you keep him. It's as simple as that. You don't trade away guys with his skillset and length. You pay him, you understand you're up against the tax, and you have a 3-4 year window to win something. That's the NBA today.
quote:
Just to be clear, you are advocating paying BI $45-50 million a year. Are you keeping Trey in that scenario or are you letting him walk or trading him? If you are keeping him, how would you round out this roster with real NBA players to compete?
You keep BI and pay Trey, then you have to trade CJ. 2 of those 3 can be on the team next year, not all 3.
real nba players? Zion, BI, Murray, Trey, Herb, with nice role players in Jose, Hawkins (hopefully), CJ trade, and a center. There's only 7 or 8 guys that play in "real" playoff games when it matters.
quote:
Just a reminder to you, Trey scored exactly 80% of what BI did in that OKC series while shooting a higher percentage from 2 and 3, averaging more rebounds, blocks, and steals per game.
Nothing can be taken from that series. Nothing. It was a pointless series playing without our best player and our next best player hobbled. You think Denver would be thinking about a big changeup to their team b/c they were swept in a series by the #1 seed where Jokic didn't play and Murray had just come back from hyperextending his knee early?
quote:
really don't understand your logic here. Ingram is not a max player, especially for this team moving forward.
I don't think anyone on this board wants to give him a max contract.
quote:
gain, it is not that Ingram is a bad player, he just isn't a great player or a great fit for this team for the money he is demanding.
Let's see how this season plays out before we say that, allowing him to play off ball with a real PG. He's not Trey, or CJ, or Hawkins and doesn't provide that level of 3 point shooting, and none of those guys are capable of getting a decent shot off when someone throws them the ball with 5 secnods left on the shot clock like BI can, nor do they play defense to BI's capability (Trey is just as good, if not slightly better).
The ideal situation played out this year is BI is more comfortable off ball, shoots 6-7 3's a game and is a more efficient scorer. Murray thrives as a PG and helps close games in the clutch for us. Hawkins and Trey take a step up in their game and make it easier to move CJ in the offseason. Or you can suck it up and keep CJ, if he's ok coming off the bench, and pay the tax next year, and you can likely get out of it in 2027 by trading one of your 5 big contracts and still be a good team.
The more realistic situation is likely that BI doesn't change much, and he's traded before the end of 2024.
Posted on 10/8/24 at 10:23 am to ThePistol
quote:
Trey scored exactly 80% of what BI did in that OKC series while shooting a higher percentage from 2 and 3, averaging more rebounds, blocks, and steals per game.
While OKC basically dared Trey to beat them by hedging hard against BI and CJ. You keep ignoring that heaping helping of context.
Posted on 10/8/24 at 10:25 am to TeddyPadillac
quote:
Let's see how this season plays out before we say that, allowing him to play off ball with a real PG. He's not Trey, or CJ, or Hawkins and doesn't provide that level of 3 point shooting, and none of those guys are capable of getting a decent shot off when someone throws them the ball with 5 secnods left on the shot clock like BI can, nor do they play defense to BI's capability (Trey is just as good, if not slightly better).
Posted on 10/8/24 at 10:38 am to Galactic Inquisitor
quote:
BI was their overwhelmingly primary focus on defense and Trey had a worse series. Y'all are just way too ready to give Trey something he hasn't earned, so you have to do it at BI's expense
^^This. Also take out BI's name and input CJ's for the last sentence. Trey has not done enough to warrant taking anything from BI/ CJ. And ill double down on that considering we now have Murray to actually maximize the 2 of BI/ CJ.
So if we trade BI and then Trey gets double teamed and Hawk has open shots do we now bench Trey for Hawk??
Trey has not proven full abilities to:
1. Rebound
2. Play in isolation
3. Outsmart double teams
4. Use effective mid range
5. Draw fouls/ get to the basket
6. Facilitate
7. Defensive abilities vs size/altheticism
The only 2 BI struggle with are 5 and 7. And both improved last year.
The truth is that if BI plays like a true all star this year then we may be having a conversation about Trey/ CJ/ Hawk.
Posted on 10/8/24 at 10:44 am to Dantheman504
I don't think fans realize that the reason they want Trey is 4-6, 6-8, 7-10 3pt shooting. That's pretty much it...
They refuse to acknowledge BI is 100% capable and just has not done it. If he does then we essentially have a "Trey" that's easily atleast 2x better right now.
And that's with full respect of Trey and his potential.
They refuse to acknowledge BI is 100% capable and just has not done it. If he does then we essentially have a "Trey" that's easily atleast 2x better right now.
And that's with full respect of Trey and his potential.
Posted on 10/8/24 at 11:04 am to Dantheman504
quote:Regular posters are always saying the issue is NOT that they think BI can make them. The issue is he won't take them.
They refuse to acknowledge BI is 100% capable and just has not done it.
You constantly lie and make shite up to try to prove your points.
What you said could not possibly be more false, so...why did you say it?
quote:If BI doubles his 3 point attempt output, that's all it takes.
If he does then we essentially have a "Trey" that's easily atleast 2x better right now.
Odds of that happening?
This post was edited on 10/8/24 at 11:05 am
Posted on 10/8/24 at 11:12 am to Dantheman504
quote:
They refuse to acknowledge BI is 100% capable and just has not done it.
This is crazy talk. I am not paying 45-50 million for a dream. Brandon Ingram has never averaged more than 6 3pa per game and he has averaged less than 4 3pa per game for the last 3 seasons. We just watched 70 games of Zion and Ingram not working. They both had the worst stats of their Pels career. Why should we double down on this pairing?
We can't have a logical discussion if I am going to be told he is capable of doing something that he has never done in 8 full NBA seasons and that is why we should pay him 45-50 million per year. Trey has skills that most NBA people would agree are a much better fit around Zion. They have and will continue to bring out the best in each other. Trey is cheaper. Dejounte Murray was brought in to be a primary ball handler. We still don't have a real NBA center on the roster.
Posted on 10/8/24 at 11:13 am to Dantheman504
quote:
The truth is that if BI plays like a true all star this year then we may be having a conversation about Trey/ CJ/ Hawk.
Trey fills more of CJ's role than he does BI's role.
Someone needs to break out a z chart on these fools.
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