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re: Honest Zion talk for Emotional Intelligent Folks
Posted on 1/17/21 at 11:21 am to SlowFlowPro
Posted on 1/17/21 at 11:21 am to SlowFlowPro
I don’t have a ton of concerns about his lack of outside shot or bad defense since those are both things he can improve with time. My issue is his complete change in fitness/athleticism compared to Duke Zion and his lack of effort on the court. There are times when he just looks miserable out there and seems to barely try, particularly on defense.
Hopefully those are just short-term problems but I’d be lying if I said I wasn’t starting to get concerned.
Hopefully those are just short-term problems but I’d be lying if I said I wasn’t starting to get concerned.
1
Posted on 1/17/21 at 11:23 am to shel311
quote:
It's the defensive side of the ball that's the issue. All the good he does on offense, he gives a shite ton of it back on the defensive side of the ball.
IMO it is the general defensive rotations that may seem bad; however, the Pelicans overall defense has been fine.
He has given players problems one on one as a defender.
Posted on 1/17/21 at 11:24 am to unctiger4
quote:I am concerned because a lot of is due to lack of effort. Energy and motor on defense is what he had at Duke and what we thought we were getting. He has little energy on D and gives a severe lack of effort all too often. Darius Bazely from OKC abused the F out of Zion over and over from teh triple threat position on the perimeter. That should not be happening.
I don’t have a ton of concerns about his lack of outside shot or bad defense since those are both things he can improve with time.
quote:I shoulda read your next line before replying lol
My issue is his complete change in fitness/athleticism compared to Duke Zion and his lack of effort on the court.
But yes, conditioning and effort are concerns, no doubt.
Posted on 1/17/21 at 11:25 am to Colonel Flagg
If we had just league average shooting from the rest of the team then we wouldn’t even be discussing this shite.
We would be winning, we would be scoring much more, Zion would be scoring more because they wouldn’t be able to play zone.
We would be winning, we would be scoring much more, Zion would be scoring more because they wouldn’t be able to play zone.
Posted on 1/17/21 at 11:25 am to Colonel Flagg
quote:NO, he hasn't. He's a turnstile on the perimeter. He guards no one.
He has given players problems one on one as a defender.
We don't need to coddle him, we can call it like it is. He's doing essentially nothing well on defense. He's been downright awful trying to guard virtually anyone in 1 on 1.
See the Bazely example from above. Zion had no chance whatsoever to guard him, I was honestly kinda embarrassed for Zion, that's how bad he looked.
Posted on 1/17/21 at 11:26 am to Colonel Flagg
quote:Disagree
If we had just league average shooting from the rest of the team then we wouldn’t even be discussing this shite.
We may win a couple more games, but if we just shot better, it would change exactly nothing about very real Zion concerns we all should have right now.
Posted on 1/17/21 at 11:26 am to Pelefraan 1
quote:
Pretty sure the extra weight is the thing holding him back
i think the weight, knee injury, and this lame arse SVG offense (for him) are 3 things messing with his head for sure
*ETA: it would explain why he's suck a shitty defender. he gives NO effort on defense and there is NO excuse for that
This post was edited on 1/17/21 at 11:27 am
Posted on 1/17/21 at 11:30 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:The Adams fit is not helping, it's not a good fit, and I have legit concerns about that for the next 3 seasons.
and this lame arse SVG offense (for him) are 3 things messing with his head for sure
quote:This all day
he gives NO effort on defense and there is NO excuse for that
Posted on 1/17/21 at 11:32 am to shel311
quote:
See the Bazely example from above. Zion had no chance whatsoever to guard him, I was honestly kinda embarrassed for Zion, that's how bad he looked.
He is not getting beat in isolation. It is a team rotations thing. The Pels have a fine defense.
They are struggling due to unfocused turnovers by role players and horrible 3 pt shooting. That is it.
The team is 11th in the league in defensive efficiency. Teams are shooting a little better than league average from 3 against them.
This post was edited on 1/17/21 at 11:33 am
Posted on 1/17/21 at 11:33 am to shel311
i don't think it's Adams. i think it's much more SVG's lame arse offense for Zion. he's basically being told "do nothing except put your head down and drive" on offense
Posted on 1/17/21 at 11:37 am to SlowFlowPro
I did see an interesting stat, Zion has the most shots attempted blocked this season at 27, he had 4 of his shots blocked at the lakers last game. Bound to happen since all of his shots are at the rim but also he needs to be smarter. A lot of the times he will drive with no opening thinking he can just blow by them. His awareness will come with time though
Posted on 1/17/21 at 11:37 am to SlowFlowPro
What specifically is wrong with the offense?
The Pels are one of the best scoring teams in the paint.
The Pels are the best rebounding teams in the league.
The Pels are one of the best teams in getting to the free throw line.
They have done all of this with absolute dog shite 3 pt shooting from Redick, Ball, Hart, and Melli.
The offensive system is fine. Stan even called out Melli for getting his head out of his arse in shooting the other day. He has constantly called them out for stupid turnovers.
The Pels are one of the best scoring teams in the paint.
The Pels are the best rebounding teams in the league.
The Pels are one of the best teams in getting to the free throw line.
They have done all of this with absolute dog shite 3 pt shooting from Redick, Ball, Hart, and Melli.
The offensive system is fine. Stan even called out Melli for getting his head out of his arse in shooting the other day. He has constantly called them out for stupid turnovers.
Posted on 1/17/21 at 11:40 am to J_Hingle
quote:
Zion has the most shots attempted blocked this season at 27
He still is shooting 55% from the field even with everyone double and triple teaming him.
Posted on 1/17/21 at 11:43 am to Colonel Flagg
quote:
He is not getting beat in isolation
He's getting completely abused in Iso, man.
quote:When Zion isn't playing, yes. When Zion is on the court, the Pels have the equivalent of the 27th best defense. When Zion is off the court, the Pels have the equivalent of the 2nd best defense.
The Pels have a fine defense.
Our D has been solid in spite of Zion, not because of Zion.
quote:They struggle because of a few things, one being how bad Zion is on defense.
They are struggling due to unfocused turnovers by role players and horrible 3 pt shooting. That is it.
quote:See above, 2nd when Zion doesn't play, 27th when he does. Not sure how you can argue around that.
The team is 11th in the league in defensive efficiency.
quote:Teams have an eFG% of .563 when Zion is on the court and .500 when he's off the court. That's the difference between 4th best and 26th best.
Teams are shooting a little better than league average from 3 against them.
Posted on 1/17/21 at 11:44 am to J_Hingle
quote:Yea, not totally surprising since I imagine he may lead the league in shots at the rim. And couple that with the attention he gets, the auto dobule from Adams' defender, and his lack of handles/passing, it does make sense.
I did see an interesting stat, Zion has the most shots attempted blocked this season at 27, he had 4 of his shots blocked at the lakers last game. Bound to happen since all of his shots are at the rim but also he needs to be smarter. A lot of the times he will drive with no opening thinking he can just blow by them. His awareness will come with time though
Those are not really the things that worry me though, I think that comes in time like you said.
Posted on 1/17/21 at 11:45 am to Colonel Flagg
quote:
What specifically is wrong with the offense?
i specifically said "for Zion"
what's wrong? we just hand him the ball in sets and tell him to put his head down and drive. no facilitation, no creativity, no pace...nothing. just "bull into those motherfrickers"
Posted on 1/17/21 at 12:20 pm to Silverfoxx
quote:
It's more than Zion tightening his handles, or learning defense, getting a jump shot, etc it's just his on court character so far that turned me off from him as well as interviews. He just so far doesn't scream leader, person who leave it all on the court, passionate gamer, etc like he showed at Duke. And if anyone feels that is the same person they are lying to themselves.
Emotionally intelligent doesn’t mean soft
Posted on 1/17/21 at 1:03 pm to SammyTiger
He’s not even as explosive as he was in preseason last year.
It’s a real concern.
It’s unreal how many times a game you see the other team drilling a 3 with Zion half assedly raising an arm.
He looks so slow on d. Mediocre players blow by him. He used to be able to defend guards. No he can’t stay in front of backup bigs.
I’m concerned. He’s basically a one dimensional player. We’re not going anywhere if he doesn’t slim down.
In one year he went from Shaq at Orlando to Shaq at Phoenix physique wise.
It’s a real concern.
It’s unreal how many times a game you see the other team drilling a 3 with Zion half assedly raising an arm.
He looks so slow on d. Mediocre players blow by him. He used to be able to defend guards. No he can’t stay in front of backup bigs.
I’m concerned. He’s basically a one dimensional player. We’re not going anywhere if he doesn’t slim down.
In one year he went from Shaq at Orlando to Shaq at Phoenix physique wise.
This post was edited on 1/17/21 at 1:19 pm
Posted on 1/17/21 at 1:15 pm to ghost2most
quote:Yea, preseason was more like Duke Zion, but since rookie year preseason, he hasn't looked the same or really played the same.
He’s not even as explosive as he was in preseason last year.
quote:Yep, the lack of effort is real. The other thing is, I get if you're closing really hard on a shooter and he fakes the shot and goes by you, that makes sense. But Zion makes a half assed play jogging it to the shooter, the shooter fakes it, Zion has time to get in a defensive stance and guard the dude, and he just legit stops and watches the dude go by him. That happens...a lot. Way too much.
It’s unreal how many times a game you see the other team drilling a 3 with Zion half assembly raising an arm.
Posted on 1/17/21 at 1:19 pm to Silverfoxx
I land in the middle. There are legitimate things to be concerned about with Zion, but it’s not panic time. At the same time the saying “he’s only played 34 games” seems a little nonchalant.
There are things about his game that should be a concern, things that the number of games he has played in shouldn’t impact, like how hard he plays. It’s bad at times, and I don’t think that’s something where a switch is turned on and all is cured. Or the fact that he’s clearly not the same athletically.
Things like his lack of offensive moves doesn’t bother me, at least right now. Maybe in 2 years if he’s still the same player we can have that discussion.
There are things about his game that should be a concern, things that the number of games he has played in shouldn’t impact, like how hard he plays. It’s bad at times, and I don’t think that’s something where a switch is turned on and all is cured. Or the fact that he’s clearly not the same athletically.
Things like his lack of offensive moves doesn’t bother me, at least right now. Maybe in 2 years if he’s still the same player we can have that discussion.
This post was edited on 1/17/21 at 1:20 pm
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