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final 2023-24 NBA season net ratings, by team
Posted on 4/15/24 at 1:22 pm
Posted on 4/15/24 at 1:22 pm
more unfulfilled potential
Final 23-24 NBA Regular Season Net Rating:
1. Boston Celtics: 11.6
2. Oklahoma City Thunder: 7.4
3. Minnesota Timberwolves: 6.6
4. Denver Nuggets: 5.4
5. New York Knicks: 4.8
6. New Orleans Pelicans: 4.5
7. Los Angeles Clippers: 3.4
8. Philadelphia 76ers: 3.1
9. Phoenix Suns: 3.1
10. Indiana Pacers: 3.0
11. Golden State Warriors: 2.6
12. Milwaukee Bucks: 2.6
13. Cleveland Cavaliers: 2.5
14. Dallas Mavericks: 2.2
15. Orlando Magic: 2.1
16. Miami Heat: 1.8
17. Sacramento Kings: 1.7
18. Houston Rockets: 1.1
19. Los Angeles Lakers: 0.6
20. Chicago Bulls: -1.5
21. Atlanta Hawks: -2.2
22. Brooklyn Nets: -3.0
23. Utah Jazz: -4.9
24. San Antonio Spurs: -6.4
25. Toronto Raptors: -6.4
26. Memphis Grizzlies: -7.1
27. Washington Wizards: -9.0
28. Detroit Pistons: -9.1
29. Portland Trail Blazers: -9.2
30. Charlotte Hornets: -10.5
Final 23-24 NBA Regular Season Net Rating:
1. Boston Celtics: 11.6
2. Oklahoma City Thunder: 7.4
3. Minnesota Timberwolves: 6.6
4. Denver Nuggets: 5.4
5. New York Knicks: 4.8
6. New Orleans Pelicans: 4.5
7. Los Angeles Clippers: 3.4
8. Philadelphia 76ers: 3.1
9. Phoenix Suns: 3.1
10. Indiana Pacers: 3.0
11. Golden State Warriors: 2.6
12. Milwaukee Bucks: 2.6
13. Cleveland Cavaliers: 2.5
14. Dallas Mavericks: 2.2
15. Orlando Magic: 2.1
16. Miami Heat: 1.8
17. Sacramento Kings: 1.7
18. Houston Rockets: 1.1
19. Los Angeles Lakers: 0.6
20. Chicago Bulls: -1.5
21. Atlanta Hawks: -2.2
22. Brooklyn Nets: -3.0
23. Utah Jazz: -4.9
24. San Antonio Spurs: -6.4
25. Toronto Raptors: -6.4
26. Memphis Grizzlies: -7.1
27. Washington Wizards: -9.0
28. Detroit Pistons: -9.1
29. Portland Trail Blazers: -9.2
30. Charlotte Hornets: -10.5
5
Posted on 4/15/24 at 1:29 pm to cgrand
quote:Bingo
more unfulfilled potential
Top 6 Net Rating IMO proves you have a solid roster, obviously a roster good enough to avoid a play in.
If you have a team that is consistently losing games by blowouts, you have a roster problem.
But when you have a team who finishes the season as a bottom 3 clutch team, 0 wins when trailing after 3 quarters, and a league worse 1-7 record in 1 possession games, you have a coaching problem.
The roster is not good enough to be a title contender. The roster IS good enough to be better than a play in team, that part is on Willie.
Posted on 4/15/24 at 1:31 pm to cgrand
quote:
more unfulfilled potential
Final 23-24 NBA Regular Season Net Rating:
1. Boston Celtics: 11.6
2. Oklahoma City Thunder: 7.4
3. Minnesota Timberwolves: 6.6
4. Denver Nuggets: 5.4
5. New York Knicks: 4.8
6. New Orleans Pelicans: 4.5
Starting Lineup:
CJ/Herb/BI/Zion/JV NetRtg: -1.1
Finishing Lineup:
CJ/Herb/BI/Zion/Larry NetRtg: -4.4
Lineups with over 100 minutes and a positive NetRtg? There are 3 of them and the commonality is Add Trey and remove one of BI/Zion.
CJ/Herb/Trey/Zion/JV NetRtg: 1.0
CJ/Herb/Trey/BI/JV NetRtg: 15.7
CJ/Herb/Trey/Zion/Larry NetRtg: 15.5
The lineup data is interesting and the biggest takeaway is that the Big 3 don't seem to work too well together. LINK
Posted on 4/15/24 at 1:40 pm to cgrand
Any team with a Top 6 net rating not make the playoffs? frick Willie.
Posted on 4/15/24 at 2:16 pm to cgrand
We played 50 games this year that were decided by 10+ points. We either blew people out, or got blown out. We were 32-18 in them.
Only 1 team in the league had more, the Mavs, who were 31-21
We were just 1-7 in games decided by 3 points or less. Tied for the leagues worst win percantage in that category with the 1-7 Pistons.
The Sixers and Mavs were the only teams to have less games decided by 3 points. The Mavs were 5-2, and the Sixers were 3-4.
We are 1 of 5 teams in the league that didn't have an OT win this year, as we only played 1 OT game and lost, and we shouldn't have even gone to OT b/c the refs blatantly cheated to allow the OT to happen, and admitted it as so in the 2 minute report. That's the egregious foul they called on JV in the last second alleyoop to JJJ.
We played the least amount of games that had clutch minutes in the league at just 29 games. We were 14-15 in those games.
The Mavs played the 2nd least at 32 games. They were 23-9 in those games.
Teams with a worst win % in games that had clutch minutes:
Nets
Hornets
Wizards
Pistons
Grizzlies
Rockets
Spurs
Raptors
Hawks
Basically every lottery team.
Our NetRtg of -12.1 in the clutch is 24th in the league. The TWolves are actually worse at -13.1
We had the 3rd highest turnover rate in the clutch.
and the positive:
We were 1 of 9 teams to end the year with a winning record against teams over .500. We finished 28-25
Only 1 team in the league had more, the Mavs, who were 31-21
We were just 1-7 in games decided by 3 points or less. Tied for the leagues worst win percantage in that category with the 1-7 Pistons.
The Sixers and Mavs were the only teams to have less games decided by 3 points. The Mavs were 5-2, and the Sixers were 3-4.
We are 1 of 5 teams in the league that didn't have an OT win this year, as we only played 1 OT game and lost, and we shouldn't have even gone to OT b/c the refs blatantly cheated to allow the OT to happen, and admitted it as so in the 2 minute report. That's the egregious foul they called on JV in the last second alleyoop to JJJ.
We played the least amount of games that had clutch minutes in the league at just 29 games. We were 14-15 in those games.
The Mavs played the 2nd least at 32 games. They were 23-9 in those games.
Teams with a worst win % in games that had clutch minutes:
Nets
Hornets
Wizards
Pistons
Grizzlies
Rockets
Spurs
Raptors
Hawks
Basically every lottery team.
Our NetRtg of -12.1 in the clutch is 24th in the league. The TWolves are actually worse at -13.1
We had the 3rd highest turnover rate in the clutch.
and the positive:
We were 1 of 9 teams to end the year with a winning record against teams over .500. We finished 28-25
Posted on 4/15/24 at 2:18 pm to TeddyPadillac
quote:Improvement! With 3 or so weeks left, we were 3rd worst to the Wizards and Pistons if I recall.
Our NetRtg of -12.1 in the clutch is 24th in the league
Posted on 4/15/24 at 2:23 pm to TigerinATL
quote:
CJ/Herb/Trey/Zion/JV NetRtg: 1.0
CJ/Herb/Trey/BI/JV NetRtg: 15.7
CJ/Herb/Trey/Zion/Larry NetRtg: 15.5
It's almost like Trey unlocks all of our lineups. I love BI, but find myself on the "trade him for a better fitting piece" bandwagon since it allows Trey to play with the starters.
Posted on 4/15/24 at 2:32 pm to shel311
quote:
Improvement! With 3 or so weeks left, we were 3rd worst to the Wizards and Pistons if I recall.
Yes i remember that as well. So there was some kind of improvement there recently.
Posted on 4/15/24 at 2:39 pm to saints5021
quote:A lot of folks get caught up in the "Trey is not as good as BI" without focusing on the "Trey is a better fit than BI" part.
It's almost like Trey unlocks all of our lineups. I love BI, but find myself on the "trade him for a better fitting piece" bandwagon since it allows Trey to play with the starters.
Posted on 4/15/24 at 2:54 pm to shel311
And a lot of people get caught up with not understanding you have to have a guy that can get any shot off in the clutch.
BI can get a shot from all 3 levels anytime he wants. He’s literally the only guy on the team that can do that.
As much as people bitch about BI not taking more 3s, the fact that Zion only recently started taking shots that weren’t violent layups is more egregious. And if he’s not going to learn how to do anything other than barrel his way into the lane on 3 guys, then we have to have a guy who can create his own shot in the clutch.
It’s why I wouldn’t object to Trae Young playing with Zion.
Answer this question for me.
Tomorrow night we are down 1 with 10 seconds left. Lebron will guard whoever gets the ball one on one. Who on our team can get a good shot off on him in that situation?
The only shot CJ is getting off is a step back 3 with a super quick release.
Trey would be lucky to get any shot off.
Zion will try to force his way to the rim with AD waiting and Lebron being strong enough to keep him out the lane.
Say what you want, but BI would get a mid range shot off that he can make on Lebron, doesn’t matter how much he contest it BI will get a good look b/c of his natural release point and height.
BI can get a shot from all 3 levels anytime he wants. He’s literally the only guy on the team that can do that.
As much as people bitch about BI not taking more 3s, the fact that Zion only recently started taking shots that weren’t violent layups is more egregious. And if he’s not going to learn how to do anything other than barrel his way into the lane on 3 guys, then we have to have a guy who can create his own shot in the clutch.
It’s why I wouldn’t object to Trae Young playing with Zion.
Answer this question for me.
Tomorrow night we are down 1 with 10 seconds left. Lebron will guard whoever gets the ball one on one. Who on our team can get a good shot off on him in that situation?
The only shot CJ is getting off is a step back 3 with a super quick release.
Trey would be lucky to get any shot off.
Zion will try to force his way to the rim with AD waiting and Lebron being strong enough to keep him out the lane.
Say what you want, but BI would get a mid range shot off that he can make on Lebron, doesn’t matter how much he contest it BI will get a good look b/c of his natural release point and height.
Posted on 4/15/24 at 2:56 pm to TeddyPadillac
quote:
And a lot of people get caught up with not understanding you have to have a guy that can get any shot off in the clutch. BI can get a shot from all 3 levels anytime he wants. He’s literally the only guy on the team that can do that.
Yet we are one of the worst clutch teams in the league. So how much value is BI bringing to our clutch situations??
Posted on 4/15/24 at 3:10 pm to cgrand
Yeah, this team has great potential, but potential won't get you anywhere without execution. They need to ditch Willie and hire Bud Hustleslozen or whatever his name is while he's still available. The dude won a championship with Giannis, a rented Jrue and parts.
Posted on 4/15/24 at 3:30 pm to Pels_Yaz
quote:
Yet we are one of the worst clutch teams in the league. So how much value is BI bringing to our clutch situations??
I would agree that BI should be better, but we have a coaching problem more than anything. And you can say all you want about BI, Zion has been terrible in the clutch too. His FT% is 50%, which is the same it was last year too. That's a huge problem, and that's not a coaching problem.
He has the 6th worst TO rate in the league in the clutch for anyone who's played more than 20 games. His FG% drops from 57% to 45%.
And BI isn't much better at 11th in TO rate, and to be honest, the other guys in the top 10 are Jokic, Edwards, Lebron, Banchero, Garland, and Wemby, so it's not that terrible of a stat to have, although to have two guys that high isn't good.
If you watch Bally's you hear AD talk about it all the time how we never have Zion set picks for BI, and the very few times we have done it good things usually happen.
There's a coaching problem.
and i'm not going to sit here and say BI is great in the clutch. he can be, but for the most part he isn't, b/c if he was then we'd be a 50+ win pace team when he plays all the time. I know no one would like to see us get this guy b/c of his lack of 3 point shooting, but if you want to fix the clutch problem, then go get Demar DeRozen, who would be easy to get. he's been far and away the most clutch player this year, and even by doing so the Bulls still suck.
Do you know that Minny has similar clutch woes as us. They go from the best defense in the league overall to the 24th best defense in the clutch. 108 rating that worsens to 117 in the clutch. WHy?
Why is their offense going from 114 to 104 in the clutch? Is Anthony Edwards not as good as we think?
I expect a team like the Mavs to be better than us in the clutch on offense.
How is it that they go from a DRtg of 114.9 overall, to 106.7 in the clutch. Why are they better on defense in the clutch, when they have two guys who are notorious for being picked on defensively in Kyrie and Luka?
Did you know that we were the 5th best NetRtg team in the clutch last year?
The year before that we were 25th.
I honestly don't know what to make of any of it.
one aspect of being a good clutch team is having a guy that can hit the clutch shot. The other aspect is a coach who puts that guy in the best position to hit that shot, and also knows how to defend the opposing best clutch player. We suck at all of that.
The point after all of that crap i just said is really that if you trade BI, which i am open to even though everythign thinks i'm the biggest BI supporter on this site, you hve to bring back someone who can play in the clutch b/c we have no one. You can't trade BI and bring back Evan Mobley. That doesn't make us any better in the clutch, unless Zion learns how to play better in the clutch, and i'm not betting on that.
This post was edited on 4/15/24 at 3:33 pm
Posted on 4/15/24 at 3:42 pm to TeddyPadillac
quote:
The point after all of that crap i just said is really that if you trade BI, which i am open to even though everythign thinks i'm the biggest BI supporter on this site, you hve to bring back someone who can play in the clutch b/c we have no one. You can't trade BI and bring back Evan Mobley. That doesn't make us any better in the clutch, unless Zion learns how to play better in the clutch, and i'm not betting on that.
I dont completely agree on this. A lot of clutch issues are not just coaching but hierarchy and fit. We bring in another guy who demands the ball especially a wing- you will have the same issues. Players need to know their roles to perform optimally in the clutch. Mobley defines Zions role more where as a guy like BI almost limits Zions aggression and him demanding the ball in the clutch.
Zion himself said he was too passive yesterday. I think its interesting that happens in the same game BI returns.
Posted on 4/15/24 at 4:05 pm to Pels_Yaz
quote:
I dont completely agree on this. A lot of clutch issues are not just coaching but hierarchy and fit. We bring in another guy who demands the ball especially a wing- you will have the same issues. Players need to know their roles to perform optimally in the clutch. Mobley defines Zions role more where as a guy like BI almost limits Zions aggression and him demanding the ball in the clutch.
Zion himself said he was too passive yesterday. I think its interesting that happens in the same game BI returns.
ZIon sucks in teh clutch, and always will if all he wants to do is drive violently to the goal every single time and refuse to take mid range shots or threes, on top of being a terrible FT shooter.
He falls everytime he shoots a layup which leads to a 5 on 4 every single time.
Posted on 4/15/24 at 4:11 pm to TeddyPadillac
quote:
ZIon sucks in teh clutch, and always will if all he wants to do is drive violently to the goal every single time and refuse to take mid range shots or threes, on top of being a terrible FT shooter. He falls everytime he shoots a layup which leads to a 5 on 4 every single time.
Dude this is just blatantly wrong on so many levels especially the past couple of games. Hes taking mid range shots and 3s. He drives violently and gets fouled. Hes making his free throws. He passes out to open 3s on many possessions. Im sorry all this just dumb comments that if you been watching games in the past month are just not true.
Posted on 4/15/24 at 4:30 pm to TeddyPadillac
quote:We can still be a bottom 5 clutch team without Zion
And a lot of people get caught up with not understanding you have to have a guy that can get any shot off in the clutch
Also, CJ was better in the clutch than BI this season, I see no reason CJ can't replace what BI did in the clutch, which wasn't much. It's a low bar.
Plus Zion's emergence, that Zion can cover some of that as well and I imagine Zion is part of the reason our clutch net rating improved at the same time he improved and became the clearcut #1.
quote:In that scenario, I'm doing the same thing every single time. Zion and shooters. It almost doesn't matter who is guarding Zion, if they let him go 1 on 1 he's getting a layup. They will build the wall, so you can't have Dyson and Nance and those type of dudes out there. You make it all shooters, trust Zion to either get a layup or pass out for a wide open either shot or attacking the close out. I would live with those results if the process is done similarly.
Tomorrow night we are down 1 with 10 seconds left. Lebron will guard whoever gets the ball one on one. Who on our team can get a good shot off on him in that situation?
quote:WHy do you have all this confidence in BI in the clutch but not CJ? Any time BI goes out and CJ becomes the #2, he plays better than BI when BI is the #2 or even the #1. The only time BI scores more is when CJ is relegated to #3. CJ has the same or better efficiency scoring than BI this season. CJ Is better in the clutch than BI this season.
The only shot CJ is getting off is a step back 3 with a super quick release.
quote:We've seen this for 5 years, it almost always ends poorly. I'm happy to see through other options at this point.
Say what you want, but BI would get a mid range shot off that he can make on Lebron, doesn’t matter how much he contest it BI will get a good look b/c of his natural release point and height.
This post was edited on 4/15/24 at 4:31 pm
Posted on 4/15/24 at 4:40 pm to Pels_Yaz
I"m more than aware that he's taking those mid range shots and 3's lately.
Doing that in games 78-82 of your 5th year, what the frick took so long?
Speaking of blatant lies. He's literally 50% from the line in the clutch this year. 7 for 14. Do you not remember that game against the Mavs? Down 2 with 20 seconds left they fouled Zion intentionally, and he went 1-2 from the line, and that's after missing an And1 free throw with a minute left.
14 free throws all year in the clutch. He's played in 70 clutch minutes.
Joel Embiid played in 26 clutch minutes this year. He went 25 of 26 from the FT line.
Cam fricking Thomas played in just 88 clutch minutes this year, and went 23 of 25 from the FT line.
How in the frick is Cam Thomas taking that many more FT's than Zion. Don't tell me the refs aren't calling it. 14 FT's all year long is pathetic for him.
Trae Young played in 104 clutch minutes. 61 fricking free throws.
don't sit here and call me a liar.
Don't act like b/c he's taking some mid range shots the last 4 games like it's been happening for a long time.
Doing that in games 78-82 of your 5th year, what the frick took so long?
quote:
Hes making his free throws.
Speaking of blatant lies. He's literally 50% from the line in the clutch this year. 7 for 14. Do you not remember that game against the Mavs? Down 2 with 20 seconds left they fouled Zion intentionally, and he went 1-2 from the line, and that's after missing an And1 free throw with a minute left.
quote:
Dude this is just blatantly wrong on so many levels especially the past couple of games. Hes taking mid range shots and 3s.
14 free throws all year in the clutch. He's played in 70 clutch minutes.
Joel Embiid played in 26 clutch minutes this year. He went 25 of 26 from the FT line.
Cam fricking Thomas played in just 88 clutch minutes this year, and went 23 of 25 from the FT line.
How in the frick is Cam Thomas taking that many more FT's than Zion. Don't tell me the refs aren't calling it. 14 FT's all year long is pathetic for him.
Trae Young played in 104 clutch minutes. 61 fricking free throws.
don't sit here and call me a liar.
Don't act like b/c he's taking some mid range shots the last 4 games like it's been happening for a long time.
Posted on 4/15/24 at 4:45 pm to TeddyPadillac
quote:
Doing that in games 78-82 of your 5th year, what the frick took so long?
He was playing with BI. Again Hierarchy.
quote:
He's literally 50% from the line in the clutch this year. 7 for 14.
Where are you getting this info from just curious?
quote:
don't sit here and call me a liar.
Not trying to offend you. But we have won more clutch games with Zion and no BI. Its why our clutch rating has improved. Its like you’re completely ignoring the last 4 games we played? We beat the the suns and warriors in clutch. Zion and CJ were a huge part of that without BI.
Posted on 4/15/24 at 4:46 pm to shel311
quote:
WHy do you have all this confidence in BI in the clutch
I don't and it's why i've said i'm open to trading him, but i want back a guy that I will be confident in the clutch in, adn that's not Evan Mobely or Jarrett Allen.
I do'nt want to vault CJ or Trey to the #2 guy. They need to stay 3a and 3b. ZIon #1.
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