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re: Elite bigs to play next to Zion?
Posted on 6/18/19 at 10:05 am to kadillak
Posted on 6/18/19 at 10:05 am to kadillak
quote:
Milwaukee lead the league in rebounds per game and rebound differential with Brook Lopez playing heavy center minutes. Turner averaged more RPG per 36 than Lopez did. Your rebounding doesn't have to all come from the 5. We have Lonzo and Zion that can subsidize that weakness.
Milwaukee is the outlier. Their best rebounder is Giannis, with a 19.3 rebound rate. Even AD was only at 18.8 last season. Our Giannis, Brandon Ingram, had a rebound rate of 7.8 last season.
Milwaukee isn't comparable. It's like trying to replicate the Warriors.
1
Posted on 6/18/19 at 10:11 am to CP3forMVP
quote:Why is only rebounding vital? Who else can you get cheaper that do the things that Turner does (i.e. led the NBA in blocks)?
Oh I'm very hung up on it, because there are luxuries and there are things you absolutely have to have. Having a C that can stretch the floor and pass the ball are a luxury, but not a requirement. But having a C that can rebound is vital. The game may have changed, but it's still the same in the way that if you don't rebound you won't win.
I agree with you on his defense and his shot blocking. BUT, you can find bigs in this league that can play good defense and block shots that wouldn't cost you the 4th pick and on top of paying $72M over the next 4 years. And how often will Turner be on the court to close games? 70/30? 60/40? Do you want to give up that asset and that cap flexibility for a guy that won't always be on the court during clutch time? Again, nothing against Turner because I like him, but our resources can be better spent.
Posted on 6/18/19 at 10:20 am to CP3forMVP
quote:
Milwaukee is the outlier. Their best rebounder is Giannis, with a 19.3 rebound rate. Even AD was only at 18.8 last season. Our Giannis, Brandon Ingram, had a rebound rate of 7.8 last season.
Milwaukee isn't comparable. It's like trying to replicate the Warriors.
The point is rebounding doesn't have to be position specific. We might not have Giannis, but Zion will rebound very well and Lonzo is his own anomaly at the position. Fine, we won't rebound as well as Milwaukee and lead the league in it, but we will be more than fine without a center grabbing 10 a game.
I'm not sold on using a lot of cap room on Turner yet, but there's definitely work arounds for the rebounding weakness.
Posted on 6/18/19 at 10:31 am to NOSHAU
quote:
Why is only rebounding vital? Who else can you get cheaper that do the things that Turner does (i.e. led the NBA in blocks)?
Don't put words in my mouth. I never said only rebounding is vital. I said having a C that can stretch the floor and shoot is a luxury, but having a rebounder is vital. If you put a non rebounder like Turner next to Zion, you will get dominated on the glass, and at any level of basketball if you can't rebound you will struggle to win games.
Dewayne Dedmon is a guy that will come cheap that can rebound, defend the rim, and block shots. Ed Davis is another guy you won't have to break the bank for, that is an EXCELLENT rebounder, and while he doesn't block shots he can still protect the rim. I'm not sure what Ivica Zubac would command but he's another guy that is good on the boards, very good protecting the rim, and can block shots. Those are just free agents, there are guys you could also trade for that wouldn't command the 4th overall pick and 18M a year.
It just isn't logical to trade an asset like #4 for a guy that doesn't play a premier position, will cost you cap flexibility, and won't always be on the court to close games when there are other options that make more sense for you.
This post was edited on 6/18/19 at 10:33 am
Posted on 6/18/19 at 10:32 am to NOSHAU
quote:
If he were referred to as a stretch 4 who could block 2.7 shots a game, would you feel better about it?
No, because I'm not certain that he can effectively guard players on the perimeter.
I just don't want to spend money on a player who has one role, and that role is the role that I think Zion fits best in (center).
Posted on 6/18/19 at 11:05 am to CP3forMVP
quote:I didn't put the words in your mouth, you typed them. I really like Dedmond and he would be a good get. Davis would be nice as a backup, but he is a foul machine. I am not sure Zubac would be able to play a lot of minutes or fit in our scheme.
Don't put words in my mouth. I never said only rebounding is vital. I said having a C that can stretch the floor and shoot is a luxury, but having a rebounder is vital. If you put a non rebounder like Turner next to Zion, you will get dominated on the glass, and at any level of basketball if you can't rebound you will struggle to win games.
Dewayne Dedmon is a guy that will come cheap that can rebound, defend the rim, and block shots. Ed Davis is another guy you won't have to break the bank for, that is an EXCELLENT rebounder, and while he doesn't block shots he can still protect the rim. I'm not sure what Ivica Zubac would command but he's another guy that is good on the boards, very good protecting the rim, and can block shots. Those are just free agents, there are guys you could also trade for that wouldn't command the 4th overall pick and 18M a year.
It just isn't logical to trade an asset like #4 for a guy that doesn't play a premier position, will cost you cap flexibility, and won't always be on the court to close games when there are other options that make more sense for you.
Posted on 6/18/19 at 11:25 am to NOSHAU
I mentioned in another thread, I’m not looking for someone to come in and play starters minutes. I would prefer to get 2 bigs with different skill sets. Get a guy that can stretch the floor, then another guy that can rim run, for example.
Posted on 6/18/19 at 12:32 pm to Manswers
Turner is a perfect fit for this team. If we can use the #4 and some other assets to get him, then we need to do it. That's the piece that makes us a playoff team next year.
Posted on 6/18/19 at 1:30 pm to Manswers
AD. Maybe we can persuade Los Angeles to trade him for something. We have a ton of future 1st tound picks that we can deal.
Posted on 6/18/19 at 2:32 pm to Milesahead
He also has short arms...but have you seen him play? He's just a very good basketball player and an top, top athlete. His PER was higher than anyone not name Zion and I think his shot looks fine. He just didn't shoot much in their system.
I recognize I'm talking about a paradigm shift. Conventional wisdom says you have to pair Zion with a bigger center to make up for his lack of height. I say lean into what you are. Pair Zion with another Zion + Lonzo and Jrue. Run all day. Switch all day. Really, how many centers are going to pound you inside? There are a few, like Davis, who pose a problem. But so many of even the big guys are drifting outside where guys like Zion or Clarke can guard them. And then those big guys have to keep up with your forwards on defense. Good luck with that. I say be what you are. Playing guys like Zion, or Clarke or even Diallo at the 5 is doable in today's NBA and lets the Pels have a clear identity with Zion. Run all day then run some more. No stops; all gas.
I recognize I'm talking about a paradigm shift. Conventional wisdom says you have to pair Zion with a bigger center to make up for his lack of height. I say lean into what you are. Pair Zion with another Zion + Lonzo and Jrue. Run all day. Switch all day. Really, how many centers are going to pound you inside? There are a few, like Davis, who pose a problem. But so many of even the big guys are drifting outside where guys like Zion or Clarke can guard them. And then those big guys have to keep up with your forwards on defense. Good luck with that. I say be what you are. Playing guys like Zion, or Clarke or even Diallo at the 5 is doable in today's NBA and lets the Pels have a clear identity with Zion. Run all day then run some more. No stops; all gas.
Posted on 6/18/19 at 2:53 pm to CP3forMVP
Posted on 6/18/19 at 3:47 pm to PTinBR
quote:
I still think Naz Reid in the second round could be a GREAT pick. He got hammered for not showing great athleticism at the combine, but I never saw him play against another big that I thought was as good as him. That includes Bruno and Gaffney.
Naz's footwork is fricking terrible. If he can correct that he's got a ton of potential.
Posted on 6/18/19 at 3:57 pm to CP3forMVP
quote:
Dewayne Dedmon i
Every fanbase wants Dedmon as a "cheap option" as a stretch 5, but either he is going to cost a LOT more than everyone thinks or NBA GM's are more informed than fans. Turner is an elite defender who can stretch the floor and is only 23. Indiana was one of the best defensive teams in the league and was in the bottom of the league in terms of rebounding.
You can pick up a non-shooting, rebounding big for cheap if you need one in certain situations. Turner's ability to protect the rim and stretch the floor is more important than his rebounding.
A Jrue-Ball backcourt combined with a Zion-Turner frontcourt could be absolutely dominant defensively.
Posted on 6/18/19 at 5:48 pm to CP3forMVP
quote:
CP3forMVP
You have no idea what you are talking about. Every damn team in the league is looking for a center who can make 3’s and protect the rim. Rebounding can be done as a team. Hell, guys like the Lopez twins and Steven Adams have made an art out of boxing out instead of gobbling up boards.
I think in the right situation, Turner will start letting 3’s fly more like Brook Lopez did this year. It’s really weird how much you are downplaying one of the most sought after player types in the league.
You probably think DeAndre Jordan is a better fit than Turner. Can’t score more than a foot away from the rim. Doesn’t try on defense. But hey, he sure will take those rebounds right out of the hands of the star player to pad those stats.
Your entire argument is just wrong.
This post was edited on 6/18/19 at 6:33 pm
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