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re: Coaches
Posted on 1/5/18 at 2:32 pm to TigerinATL
Posted on 1/5/18 at 2:32 pm to TigerinATL
quote:
What is one of the complaints about Demps? Lack of oversight and accountability
agreed. i dont think ownership has a problem turning the keys over to whoever the GM is.
i do think the point is a little finer than that though- Hinkie was given the full blessing of ownership to lose like no one has ever lost before for 3 years before the external pressure became too much. if there is still a "win/be good now" mandate, that's not exactly autonomy.
isnt one of the alleged problems with JVG a couple years ago his desire to remake the roster almost entirely after the playoff run?
quote:
They built what immediately became one of the better practice facilities in the league. People act like Benson is cheap when he isn'
havent called him cheap with the Pels in any of these discussions. there is more to it than "he has a high payroll this season" and "they built a nice training facility" yes it is nice that they are doing those things and it is commendable. that doesn't mean they invest properly in medical staff or coaching or scouting or analytics or etc etc etc. it doesnt mean they run a first class organization that will intrigue guys with great pedigree/prospects
it's not a be all, end all thing. obviously anecdotal, but how many guys leave the Hornets/Pels and say complimentary things about the organization v how many say less flattering things?
quote:
So I don't think it's crazy for the team to pay $10ish for the next GM/HC combo with all of this new money.
sure. we'll see what happens if they make a move. we'll see the types of candidates they attract/interview.
This post was edited on 1/5/18 at 2:34 pm
3
Posted on 1/5/18 at 2:38 pm to corndeaux
I truly believe that if Gentry and Demps go, Calipari will be the #1 target. He wanted President and Coach last time and the right to hire his own GM. Similar to SVG.
Posted on 1/5/18 at 2:43 pm to corndeaux
quote:
Hinkie was given the full blessing of ownership to lose like no one has ever lost before for 3 years before the external pressure became too much. if there is still a "win/be good now" mandate, that's not exactly autonomy.
I don't think another GM will ever have the autonomy to tank like Hinkie did. However, one of the things Hinkie did to get that autonomy was present his vision to Sixers ownership in an extremely detailed and compelling manner. He had a powerpoint going step by step all the moves through time that allowed the Rockets to make the Harden trade and then presented his theories. Sixers ownership did not go into the hiring with the "process" in mind. Hinkie sold that.
quote:
that doesn't mean they invest properly in medical staff or coaching or scouting or analytics or etc etc etc. it doesnt mean they run a first class organization that will intrigue guys with great pedigree/prospects
I think TigerinATL is suggesting that enough money is available that a new GM can convince ownership to spend on these things assuming they efficiently allocate spending.
Posted on 1/5/18 at 2:44 pm to Crewz
ugh...that would be terrible
maybe it works out, but the scary plausibility of that hypothetical hire is exactly why ownership is a problem to me
maybe it works out, but the scary plausibility of that hypothetical hire is exactly why ownership is a problem to me
This post was edited on 1/5/18 at 2:46 pm
Posted on 1/5/18 at 2:47 pm to corndeaux
quote:
havent called him cheap
A lot of people don't, yet the majority talking about potential upgrades seem to assume there is a significant limit on the spending.
quote:
that doesn't mean they invest properly in medical staff or coaching or scouting or analytics or etc etc etc.
I've been complaining about having a corporate sponsor as the team doctors for years. I do think it is an issue and the Pels keeping a doctor that the Saints fired certainly doesn't look good. But I think that would be seen as a challenge to overcome, not a deal breaker.
quote:
it's not a be all, end all thing. obviously anecdotal, but how many guys leave the Hornets/Pels and say complimentary things about the organization v how many say less flattering things?
I've no doubt the team can be run better. But they'll have to hire the right person to make that a priority. I'm hoping for a Hinkie or Zarren but considering that AD/DC will rightly have a disproportionate voice in the process, if I had to bet on a name today I'd bet on Cal like MM said. For it to not be Cal would require Loomis liking a Hinkie or Zarren enough to be able to sell that guy to AD/DC without a coach attached.
This post was edited on 1/5/18 at 2:50 pm
Posted on 1/5/18 at 2:51 pm to NOFOX
quote:
He had a powerpoint
not this again...
seriously though, fair point.
i do wonder how much owner background mattered- isnt Harris basiclally a leveraged buyout kingpin? so "the process" appeals to that type of mindset, i would think. wonder what type of mindset Benson has with these things
Posted on 1/5/18 at 2:57 pm to TigerinATL
quote:
majority talking about potential upgrades seem to assume there is a significant limit on the spending.
the problem as i perceive it (could be way offbase here- i dont know their financials they way i did under Shinn) is more a lack of effort than a lack of funds.
like Crewz said in the other thread, they are more concerned with the bottom line. if they dont think that money will matter, then they dont want to spend it.
and i get that- why spend money that you think will be wasted?
i also think there are things that pay off down the line. and, hot take, that if you want to own a pro sports team, it should be about more than keeping profits high
eta- let's do a hypothetical:
say Clay Bennett buys the Bills and moves them to OKC. then say he names Sam Presti as Executive VP and GM of the OKC Bills. isn't that more than a little weird? and doesnt that say something about Clay Bennett's attitude towards the Bills?
This post was edited on 1/5/18 at 3:00 pm
Posted on 1/5/18 at 3:03 pm to corndeaux
quote:
hot take, that if you want to own a pro sports team, it should be about more than keeping profits high
One of the reported factors in getting Benson interested in the Pels was the fact that he already owned a lot of property in the area and a viable Pels with 41 home games meant his other investments would benefit from the added foot traffic in the area that would disappear if the Pels moved. The Pels might have to get contention worthy by accident for Benson to see the financial worthiness of winning basketball.
This post was edited on 1/5/18 at 3:04 pm
Posted on 1/5/18 at 3:16 pm to corndeaux
quote:
not this again...
quote:
i do wonder how much owner background mattered- isnt Harris basiclally a leveraged buyout kingpin?
I think the Sixers ownership group consisting of a bunch of Wharton nerds was naturally inclined to Hinkie's pitch, but he still sold it and continued selling it to them until the league stepped in.
quote:
wonder what type of mindset Benson has with these things
I doubt Benson has much opinion on anything anymore. Our next GM needs to be more of a leader with vision and conviction that can sell his plan to build a first class organization to Laushca/Mickey/Gayle. A pushover retread type like Griffin, Marks, or Dumars is not going to be able to do that.
This post was edited on 1/5/18 at 3:21 pm
Posted on 1/5/18 at 3:46 pm to NOFOX
Given how much Demps has flirted with the tax line, its pretty obvious he is under direction that he cannot surpass it. I'm pretty sure that any new GM will be given the same type of restrictions. Wouldn't that limit the pool? Or do you think ownership would let a GM spend more freely?
Posted on 1/5/18 at 3:52 pm to brmark70816
This is a playoff bubble team, they shouldn't pay the tax. Most teams have a "only if you're really a contender can you go into the tax" rule. Toronto traded away a 1st and a 2nd to dump Carroll and avoid the tax and they are a near contender with a very wealthy corporate owner. If interviewing GMs were flat out told the Pels would never ever pay the tax, that might chase some potential GMs away, but I don't think that is the stance of the team.
This post was edited on 1/5/18 at 3:54 pm
Posted on 1/5/18 at 4:20 pm to TigerinATL
If they resign Cousins and sign Rondo to a small contract, is there anyway they will not be a tax team next year?
Posted on 1/5/18 at 4:31 pm to brmark70816
quote:
If they resign Cousins and sign Rondo to a small contract, is there anyway they will not be a tax team next year?
Yes. Assuming current projections and a $123 million tax line, Dump Ajinca, Stretch Asik, resign Rondo with Non Bird Rights to a 20% raise at $4 million, and you'd be $7.6 million away from the tax needing to replace Nelson, Allen, Cunningham and Clark (and Asik/Ajinca). Find a way to dump Asik and you get another $2.8 million to work with.
This post was edited on 1/5/18 at 4:32 pm
Posted on 1/5/18 at 4:40 pm to TigerinATL
I just don't see Rondo taking that little to stay and start. But even if he does, you think they can fill 6 spots with 7.6M? If they keep the 1st rounder, he'll get almost 2M alone. Any vet will be close to that as well. All league minimum guys? Thats almost half the team..
Posted on 1/5/18 at 5:01 pm to brmark70816
quote:
you think they can fill 6 spots with 7.6M?
Of those 6 players only 2, Cunningham and Nelson, are playing regularly. I'd promote Charles Cooke to the regular roster for about $850k. Hopefully between he and Jackson you can get a 5th guard by committee. Diallo also is either ready to contribute by next year or you used him to dump Ajinca and have another $1.5 to work with. The remaining money I'd spend on a 4th guard, Cunningham replacement and a backup big.
Is that a lot to ask? Yes, but it actually is a bit more to work with than they had last year. And if the playoffs are competitive you can probably get a boost in the cap/tax.
Posted on 1/6/18 at 2:05 am to Crewz
There is other posibility.
Pels have some success this year. DMC is retained.
Gentry expires this year (team option) or next year (even during the season).
I just heard that Finch is well regarded by Dell. He MIGHT have given him a word.
Maybe not a promise.
Nuggs were really surprised that he was gone...
Pels have some success this year. DMC is retained.
Gentry expires this year (team option) or next year (even during the season).
I just heard that Finch is well regarded by Dell. He MIGHT have given him a word.
Maybe not a promise.
Nuggs were really surprised that he was gone...
Posted on 1/6/18 at 5:49 am to pawel
Heard from who?
Posted on 1/6/18 at 9:25 am to pawel
I think Finch could be sold to Loomis as another Sean Payton, but Demps hasn’t earned picking another coach.
Posted on 1/6/18 at 9:27 am to TigerinATL
Exactly. The odds of Dell being here for a third coach are like 100 to 1
Posted on 1/6/18 at 11:28 am to Aussie_Pelican
Just heard some nuggets elsewhere...
Because of the timing of Gentry deal and his age - I CAN see a third coach of Demps 'tenure
Because of the timing of Gentry deal and his age - I CAN see a third coach of Demps 'tenure
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