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As disappointing as the season was: other teams had worse and are in worst shape
Posted on 4/27/23 at 8:05 am
Posted on 4/27/23 at 8:05 am
I hated how our season ended, but imagine being a Bucks fan.
Puts our collapse in perspective. It's one thing to be a No. 1 Seed in Dec/Jan and not make the playoffs. It's 1000X worse to be the No. 1 Seed in the NBA and get rolled by an injured 8 seed in 5 games. Maybe the biggest collapse of all time.
Some other teams in worse shape:
Dallas - Didn't even make the play in and are now stuck with either overpaying a psycho or going nowhere with him.
Minnesota - Mortgaged their future and got worse. Ouch.
Clippers - Four years in and zero to show for George and Kawhi except for a bunch of injuries. At least our always injured star isn't old and a FA.
Memphis/Lakers - One of these teams is going to be very disappointed. What's more likely going forward: Zion matures and gets his conditioning under control, or Ja matures and stops being an alcoholic thug, or AD and Lebron stay healthy when it matters two years in a row?
Cleveland - Getting Gentleman swept by a very average Knicks team. Ouch. Their young front court regressed hard. Mobley and Allen may not be as dynamic as beieved.
Toronto - A core of Siakam, FVV, OG, Trent, Barnes and a championship coach flamed out as bad as the Pels.
Bulls - Gave up all their assets to top out at a 10 seed.
Nets - Preseason title contenders to now having a bunch of guys and one All Star along with a useless Simmons.
My point is that this season didn't turn out great for a bunch of established and up and coming teams.
I get that 29 teams end the season unhappy, but really, the only teams that have to be feeling really good win or lose at this point about their future are:
OKC
Sac
Utah
Orlando
Maybe a few others.
We still have our assets and flexibility. And a glimmer of hope.
Aso, my playoff predictions have been an abomination haha.
Puts our collapse in perspective. It's one thing to be a No. 1 Seed in Dec/Jan and not make the playoffs. It's 1000X worse to be the No. 1 Seed in the NBA and get rolled by an injured 8 seed in 5 games. Maybe the biggest collapse of all time.
Some other teams in worse shape:
Dallas - Didn't even make the play in and are now stuck with either overpaying a psycho or going nowhere with him.
Minnesota - Mortgaged their future and got worse. Ouch.
Clippers - Four years in and zero to show for George and Kawhi except for a bunch of injuries. At least our always injured star isn't old and a FA.
Memphis/Lakers - One of these teams is going to be very disappointed. What's more likely going forward: Zion matures and gets his conditioning under control, or Ja matures and stops being an alcoholic thug, or AD and Lebron stay healthy when it matters two years in a row?
Cleveland - Getting Gentleman swept by a very average Knicks team. Ouch. Their young front court regressed hard. Mobley and Allen may not be as dynamic as beieved.
Toronto - A core of Siakam, FVV, OG, Trent, Barnes and a championship coach flamed out as bad as the Pels.
Bulls - Gave up all their assets to top out at a 10 seed.
Nets - Preseason title contenders to now having a bunch of guys and one All Star along with a useless Simmons.
My point is that this season didn't turn out great for a bunch of established and up and coming teams.
I get that 29 teams end the season unhappy, but really, the only teams that have to be feeling really good win or lose at this point about their future are:
OKC
Sac
Utah
Orlando
Maybe a few others.
We still have our assets and flexibility. And a glimmer of hope.
Aso, my playoff predictions have been an abomination haha.
This post was edited on 4/27/23 at 8:06 am
10
Posted on 4/27/23 at 8:17 am to ghost2most
I'm tired of the mindset that at least there are teams worse off than us. I want to have some fricking success
Posted on 4/27/23 at 8:19 am to ghost2most
The bucks just had one of the most humiliating playoff losses ive seen and they have no way to improve their team. Middleton and Lopez are free agents and have them bent over a barrel because the gain no cap space if they walk. So they're about to get overpaid. They have no 1sts till 2028. They just traded 5 2nds for crowder only to not play him in the playoffs and now he's a free agent.
Posted on 4/27/23 at 8:19 am to ghost2most
Don't forget the Bucks losing in round 1 is potentially good for the Pels.
Posted on 4/27/23 at 8:58 am to Balsamic_duck
To your point about the Bucks cap situation, Lopez would be a pretty good fit for this team. No way they don’t keep Lopez, but it definitely went from a 0% to a 1% chance overnight and here’s why:
Let’s say that Middleton exercises his player option and they resign Lopez for the same $13 mill salary with his bird rights. That still only gives them 9 players on the roster and already over the tax line. Even if they fill the rest of the roster out with only minimum salaries, they would be looking at a tax bill of about $60 million. This is after they are going to pay about $80 mill in tax this year and paid about $50 mill the year before. Their owner has said in the past that they essentially lost money in the regular season last year because of the tax, so I imagine they really count on the playoffs to generate revenue (which they obviously don’t have this year). They will definitely let Crowder walk, but resigning Lopez at just $13 mill essentially costs them $50 million in tax payments.
I still think they sign him, but it isn’t 100% anymore and maybe they look for a cheap dumping destination at the deadline if things aren’t going well or Giannis gets hurt next year.
Let’s say that Middleton exercises his player option and they resign Lopez for the same $13 mill salary with his bird rights. That still only gives them 9 players on the roster and already over the tax line. Even if they fill the rest of the roster out with only minimum salaries, they would be looking at a tax bill of about $60 million. This is after they are going to pay about $80 mill in tax this year and paid about $50 mill the year before. Their owner has said in the past that they essentially lost money in the regular season last year because of the tax, so I imagine they really count on the playoffs to generate revenue (which they obviously don’t have this year). They will definitely let Crowder walk, but resigning Lopez at just $13 mill essentially costs them $50 million in tax payments.
I still think they sign him, but it isn’t 100% anymore and maybe they look for a cheap dumping destination at the deadline if things aren’t going well or Giannis gets hurt next year.
This post was edited on 4/27/23 at 9:00 am
Posted on 4/27/23 at 9:00 am to ghost2most
quote:
Maybe a few others.
memphis with Clarke and Adams rolls the Lakers.
and you are so right. god help them if morant doesn't wake up.
memphis needs brooks to find the range game6 or they go out. Kennard hurt his shoulder.
Posted on 4/27/23 at 9:06 am to ghost2most
quote:
What's more likely going forward: Zion matures and gets his conditioning under control, or Ja matures and stops being an alcoholic thug
Temetrius (all star formerly known as Ja) starts using his given name in Alcoholics Anonymous and straightens out. no more flexing.
I gave up hope zion ever gets it after we heard about him laughing at cj doing floor work.
they are both immature products of being sought after commodities as teens.
its perfect they played AAU ball on same team.
I would have bet on zion until his recent comment about not wanting to hurt the team. of course that whole explanation cycle of him and griff left other questions unanswered but we all got the Simmons vibe which we hope melts away when he gets back on the floor.
alcoholism is tough.
maybe morant never beats it.
right now I give the edge to morant though because a lot of Zion issue is not maturity its lower extremities in zions actual body.
the shadow of greats whose career was injury riddled is over zion.
maybe he's 100% ok the next ten years. it could happen.
if he gets 70 games 3 years in a row no one talks about maturity.
This post was edited on 4/27/23 at 9:34 am
Posted on 4/27/23 at 9:17 am to ghost2most
I would trade our whole roster for Giannis and surround him with 4 G leaguers. That team still makes the playoffs. A healthy Giannis is still the greatest player in the world. I'm not betting against an angry, healthy, motivated Giannis next season..
Posted on 4/27/23 at 9:17 am to Baron
I would really like having Lopez, even for just a year or two. He’s still got some gas left in the tank and is a such a beast at defense and hitting 3s. During the game yesterday they showed a stat for the most times contesting shots in the paint. Lopez was #1 and had twice as much as the #2 guy.
Getting a shot blocking center who can hit threes without giving up any first round picks would be great. We’d have to work out a sign and trade so it would be difficult to pull off, but still possible.
Getting a shot blocking center who can hit threes without giving up any first round picks would be great. We’d have to work out a sign and trade so it would be difficult to pull off, but still possible.
Posted on 4/27/23 at 9:43 am to saintslsupels
quote:
Getting a shot blocking center who can hit threes without giving up any first round picks would be great. We’d have to work out a sign and trade so it would be difficult to pull off, but still possible.
there is going to be a bidding war if he's an unrestricted free agent.
Posted on 4/27/23 at 9:47 am to saintslsupels
quote:
We’d have to work out a sign and trade so it would be difficult to pull off, but still possible.
In the “tax casualty” scenario, MIL wouldn’t take back any salary. Which essentially means we’d have first use assets to dump salary to a cap space team, and then give MIL a draft pick to get him. We’d also be competing with other teams, which will up the price on both steps. Plus we’d have to sign Lopez to at least 3 years to make it eligible, which would eat up our cap flexibility in the future (even if year 3 is a dummy year like GT).
Hopefully the Bucks would like to just retool rather than dump the salary, and they are somehow infatuated with Naji and Nance. Or maybe they decide to retool during next year’s deadline and someone else emerges on our roster that is expendable and enticing.
I’m still optimistic about our future, but Griffin really wrote us into a corner with some of his moves. There is no easy way to reshape this talented, but clunky roster. If we don’t have major internal growth next year, we are going to almost be forced to start tearing down again.
Posted on 4/27/23 at 9:53 am to Baron
quote:
In the “tax casualty” scenario, MIL wouldn’t take back any salary. Which essentially means we’d have first use assets to dump salary to a cap space team,
Not necessarily. I think the new "You can use the MLE as trade exception" rule from the new CBA would go into effect this season.
Posted on 4/27/23 at 10:27 am to ghost2most
I'd kill to be in the Bucks position right now.
Won a title a few years ago and have one of the best players in the game.
Won a title a few years ago and have one of the best players in the game.
Posted on 4/27/23 at 10:33 am to TigerinATL
quote:
Not necessarily. I think the new "You can use the MLE as trade exception" rule from the new CBA would go into effect this season.
Great point, I completely forgot about that. I think all of the rules are going into effect this off-season except for the increased limitations on tax teams which don’t go into effect until the next season. But with the new MLE rule and number, we could give him all of the MLE and start him at $12.5 mill with increases along the way. If we decline Billy, decline GT, and dump Kira, we could give that to Lopez and still sign our FRP and keep JV for a trade. I wonder how owning the Bucks future picks and swaps may affect it? If we offered to remove the swaps, it would free up their ability to trade those picks. That’s a value that only we could offer them without really costing us much at all.
It’s a shame the new tax rules don’t go into effect yet. Then the likelihood the Bucks dump him would be much higher.
Posted on 4/27/23 at 10:39 am to saintslsupels
quote:
I would really like having Lopez, even for just a year or two. He’s still got some gas left in the tank and is a such a beast at defense and hitting 3s
Funny thing about Lopez...with our roster, I'd luv to have the current 35 year old Brook Lopez... AFTER he has been in the NBA for 8 yrs or so...Lopez, for the first 8 yrs or so...wouldn't be much help for us. Same goes for Horford...funny how both those guys reinvented themselves at the same point in their respective careers.
Assuming Lopez is not a possibility...Pels need to hire somebody & their ONLY job...is figuring out which current 28 yr old center COULD develope the same way Lopez & Horford have. Stats don't lie...on these 2 guys...and there's another guy out there RIGHT NOW, under the radar...who is just about ready to evolve into the next "Lopez"...and he can be had, fairly cheaply, at the moment. The key is getting there first...in recognizing who he is. I'll let you know as soon as I figure out WHO that guy is. In the mean time, you can impress the crap out of me by telling me WHO this guy is gonna be...
Posted on 4/27/23 at 12:37 pm to Baron
If we did a sign and trade for Lopez, it would be with a tanking team signing Lopez and then trading him to us. Ideally a team like the Rockets or Pistons would use their salary to sign Lopez, then trade him to us for expiring contracts and draft picks. Maybe Val, Kira, Naji and a few 2nd round picks? Would be hard to pull off but not impossible.
Posted on 4/27/23 at 3:00 pm to ghost2most
How come all those teams worse than us are in the playoffs?
Posted on 4/27/23 at 6:06 pm to saintslsupels
quote:
If we did a sign and trade for Lopez, it would be with a tanking team signing Lopez and then trading him to us.
That’s not a legal trade.
Posted on 4/27/23 at 9:12 pm to Baron
Counter point - picking 14th in the draft is the worst possible outcome for a season, our pick swamp didn’t materialize, and our foundational star is a fat, unmotivated child.
Posted on 4/28/23 at 8:47 am to Baron
quote:
If we don’t have major internal growth next year, we are going to almost be forced to start tearing down again.
for me being a fan means caring and hoping for some players to grow in basketball skills.
troublesome if the actual gm falls in love. I was so impressed at the jrue move.
I could never have dealt jrue.
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