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re: Amin Elhassan on the In The NO podcast
Posted on 5/6/19 at 2:07 pm to eyeran
Posted on 5/6/19 at 2:07 pm to eyeran
Without having an ounce of inside knowledge, my thoughts are that the goodwill that Gentry earned during the AD fiasco earned him this additional time. I do agree that Griffin needs time to restructure, but I also think that's a fringe benefit. I think this will be his last coaching stop and he will"retire" and "move up to a front office role" after this season. What that role is a different discussion (I'm thinking some sort of brand ambassador or something)
Not to mention, you want to see if he can be successful this year with a culture built that a coach walk into and feel like they have a legit chance of winning. Not many guys out there right now that are worth it. I mean the hottest names in coaching searches right now are Ty Lue and Monty f'n Williams.
Not to mention, you want to see if he can be successful this year with a culture built that a coach walk into and feel like they have a legit chance of winning. Not many guys out there right now that are worth it. I mean the hottest names in coaching searches right now are Ty Lue and Monty f'n Williams.
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Posted on 5/6/19 at 2:11 pm to Crewz
Do you really think my point is that you judge a coach based on one or two years simply on wins and losses?
really?
Nuance and context are useful tools in evaluating anyone at anything.
But they become less necessary when someone has a large body of work. The larger the body of work, the easier it is just to look at results.
Gentry has coached almost 1000 games and has 16 seasons as a HC. I think that's both a large enough sample size AND a large enough dichotomy between winning and losing seasons to make a pretty easy judgement call.
really?
Nuance and context are useful tools in evaluating anyone at anything.
But they become less necessary when someone has a large body of work. The larger the body of work, the easier it is just to look at results.
Gentry has coached almost 1000 games and has 16 seasons as a HC. I think that's both a large enough sample size AND a large enough dichotomy between winning and losing seasons to make a pretty easy judgement call.
Posted on 5/6/19 at 2:13 pm to eyeran
quote:
We'll be back here again next year with more excuses for Gentry
He'll be a year older and at the end of his contract. It won't be "do you fire him or not?", it will be "do we commit to him again or not?" Why would Griffin commit 3-4 more years to Gentry when the painless alternative of promoting him to a FO position exists?
Just about the only situation I can think of where you consider recommitting to Gentry is if you keep AD and get to the WCF at least.
Posted on 5/6/19 at 2:13 pm to Crewz
quote:Ah, that magical season 10 years ago.
So, I will flip it.
Explain how he overachieved so much in 2010? That team was seen as a 6-10 seed going into the season, and were possibly a magical Ron Artest play from going to the Finals.
Dude's been coaching since the Reagan administration and we're still waiting for him to put it all together. Baby steps I guess.
Posted on 5/6/19 at 2:16 pm to TigerinATL
quote:Those are my exact thoughts, today.
He'll be a year older and at the end of his contract. It won't be "do you fire him or not?", it will be "do we commit to him again or not?" Why would Griffin commit 3-4 more years to Gentry when the painless alternative of promoting him to a FO position exists?
Posted on 5/6/19 at 4:46 pm to eyeran
quote:
Would specifics actually matter to you or anyone else on either side?
Yes. And there is no side on Gentry. He isn't the answer long term. He's not particularly good, but there are only a handful of truly good coaches.
What matters to me is that no one has a particularly thoughtful answer as to why he is a "problem" given what the Pels have done during his tenure. You and Pistol address it, but given how self-evident it seems to many posters, I would think there would be more to say than what has been presented.
quote:
"Gayle went to our playoff game AND the Kentucky Derby. Please don't fire me...i love you!!!"
I've been harder on ownership than almost everyone who posts here regularly. You either trust that Griffin can do his job the way he wants or not. For the time being, I'm going to trust it.
Posted on 5/6/19 at 5:00 pm to ThePistol
Thanks for the thoughts here. All I was looking for. I agree that Gentry isn't much of a needle mover
I think there's room to debate points 1 and 2. You may very well be right, but I'm not sure it's so obvious that what the Pels did in terms of pace was just a huge mistake. I think it makes sense to push the pace especially because you don't have much shooting in the half court. And, before his injury, the Pels and Boogie looked to finally be figuring it out.
3-4 are fair points. They could have done better. But how much of that can be put on shaky roster construction? There was no backup pg. Randle, pretty early on for me, wasn't an answer either.
Point 5 is another interesting one. Guys are who they are. How many teams/coaches are reaching Cousins or Randle?
Point 6 is just an inexcusable display and should rightly be called out for incompetence.
Again, I appreciate the dialogue. Particularly the culture parts, maybe Gentry just isn't good at getting buy in. Fair question and critique.
I think there's room to debate points 1 and 2. You may very well be right, but I'm not sure it's so obvious that what the Pels did in terms of pace was just a huge mistake. I think it makes sense to push the pace especially because you don't have much shooting in the half court. And, before his injury, the Pels and Boogie looked to finally be figuring it out.
3-4 are fair points. They could have done better. But how much of that can be put on shaky roster construction? There was no backup pg. Randle, pretty early on for me, wasn't an answer either.
Point 5 is another interesting one. Guys are who they are. How many teams/coaches are reaching Cousins or Randle?
Point 6 is just an inexcusable display and should rightly be called out for incompetence.
Again, I appreciate the dialogue. Particularly the culture parts, maybe Gentry just isn't good at getting buy in. Fair question and critique.
Posted on 5/6/19 at 7:14 pm to corndeaux
I don’t think they let him coach out the entire next season without already having a plan in place to replace him for 2020-21. It would make no sense otherwise
and I do believe a guy like uncle al would be valuable in the organization. Try as I might I just can’t be mad at the guy despite the lack of success on the court. That says a lot
there are places in every successful business for good men and he’s a good man. I don’t think railing on him now is productive knowing that this team is in for a major overhaul
also the comparison someone made to the GS situation with Kerr is not germane. That roster was already set and ready
and I do believe a guy like uncle al would be valuable in the organization. Try as I might I just can’t be mad at the guy despite the lack of success on the court. That says a lot
there are places in every successful business for good men and he’s a good man. I don’t think railing on him now is productive knowing that this team is in for a major overhaul
also the comparison someone made to the GS situation with Kerr is not germane. That roster was already set and ready
This post was edited on 5/6/19 at 7:16 pm
Posted on 5/7/19 at 10:18 am to Crewz
quote:So, it is it your contention that the coach does not matter (or am I misunderstanding the point)?
Agree that Gentry doesn't move the needle. I think 4 coaches in the world (maybe less) do.
This post was edited on 5/7/19 at 10:19 am
Posted on 5/7/19 at 10:29 am to NOSHAU
I am saying finding the right coach should happen after your foundation and direction are in place.
Brad Stevens is a Fantastic coach for X kind of roster and direction but not Y. As are most coaches. There are maybe 3 or 4 coaches in the whole world who can be great in any situation.
So, why would you go hire a coach before you have your foundation and direction? It makes no sense.
Griffin will make more fantastic FO hired, then he will know whether AD is staying or not. Will know his own pick slot. Will know the actual pieces he gets back from an AD trade and then the subsequent opportunities he will have in January and February.
His foundation and direction will be clearly in place a year from today. It is not now. So hiring a coach now would be one of the most foolish things he could do.
It would be like starting a business and committing yourself for 10 years to an office space when you have no idea if you will be a small 8 person company or if this thing will take off and you will need 1000 cubicles. That's the best analogy I can give.
Brad Stevens is a Fantastic coach for X kind of roster and direction but not Y. As are most coaches. There are maybe 3 or 4 coaches in the whole world who can be great in any situation.
So, why would you go hire a coach before you have your foundation and direction? It makes no sense.
Griffin will make more fantastic FO hired, then he will know whether AD is staying or not. Will know his own pick slot. Will know the actual pieces he gets back from an AD trade and then the subsequent opportunities he will have in January and February.
His foundation and direction will be clearly in place a year from today. It is not now. So hiring a coach now would be one of the most foolish things he could do.
It would be like starting a business and committing yourself for 10 years to an office space when you have no idea if you will be a small 8 person company or if this thing will take off and you will need 1000 cubicles. That's the best analogy I can give.
Posted on 5/7/19 at 10:35 am to Crewz
I look at it like organic growth or procession. Much like he's not going to lay off anyone in the front office today is exactly why he is not going to lay off the coach now. You don't know what you have at least not in total. The machine is broken and needs new parts, but why would you get rid of the other parts you have? You'll only break it further if you do.
Posted on 5/7/19 at 11:10 am to Crewz
quote:
I am saying finding the right coach should happen after your foundation and direction are in place.
Couldn't one just as easily argue that getting the right coach should be a fundamental part of your foundation and direction?
Posted on 5/7/19 at 11:17 am to Fun Bunch
Not in this unique situation. No, I couldn't make that argument even if I tried. I can't think of any situation like this in NBA history. They could be fringe title contenders in August or they could be in a total rebuild and literally everything in between.
Sure, if you could get Rick Carlisle and build everything around that,.may e you consider that. But you don't make an unknown coach the center of your entire decision making process. And they are like 3 coaches that are absolute knowns, and they can't be had
Sure, if you could get Rick Carlisle and build everything around that,.may e you consider that. But you don't make an unknown coach the center of your entire decision making process. And they are like 3 coaches that are absolute knowns, and they can't be had
Posted on 5/7/19 at 11:35 am to Crewz
quote:
I am saying finding the right coach should happen after your foundation and direction are in place.
Ding ding ding
Leadership starts at the top and trickles down. But Griffin has made one hire (that’s at least been made public). It would be wasted time and energy to go through a coaching search without a strong core roster, without an identity, without a vision of how it will be built, without the style with which it will play, and all this with your superstar with one foot out the door. What kind of coaching strengths are you even looking for in this hypothetical search?
TLDR: FO is the priority. Start at the top and work down. That’s how you build an organization the ‘right way’
This post was edited on 5/7/19 at 11:37 am
Posted on 5/7/19 at 11:57 am to DeionDeion
On top of that, Griffin has stated in the past that good front offices scout coaches like they do players. They look into them for years.
They can do that once they get the foundation in place. Or, the alternative is: Fore Gentry now and hire a coach based off two interviews.
There are just so many reasons why waiting to bring in the next head coach is the right move that I can't even make a devil's advocate argument for firing Gentry now and bringing in some new coach on a 4 year contract. Just would make absolutely no sense
They can do that once they get the foundation in place. Or, the alternative is: Fore Gentry now and hire a coach based off two interviews.
There are just so many reasons why waiting to bring in the next head coach is the right move that I can't even make a devil's advocate argument for firing Gentry now and bringing in some new coach on a 4 year contract. Just would make absolutely no sense
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